Wednesday, June 12, 2013

Bogus Safety Issue Over Turban Blows Up in Quebec's Face

FSQ to turbanites.."GFY..Play in your backyard!"
Here's a brief piece to give readers a chance to sound off over the turban ban, an issue that has spiraled out of control and beyond the pale considering that we are talking about less than 200 children in the whole province.

The Fédération de soccer du Québec has recently upheld the ban on the turban that it put in place, despite being suspended over the issue by the national governing body.

The underhanded and dishonest interpretation of FIFA rules by the Quebec Soccer Federation, seems to have come back and bitten them in the ass, but like so many idiots in high places, faced with their mistake, they'd rather compound the problem by brazening it out, rather than honorably facing the music and admitting a mistake.
Sadly, the longer the FSQ holds out, the harder and more painful it will be to climb down from their position.

The rationale used to ban the turban is so juvenile that it is beyond contempt.
The FSQ actually ruled that since FIFA has no specific rules allowing the turban, then it is perfectly acceptable to ban it.
It's like banning Gatorade because FIFA hasn't specifically said it is legal it to drink on the pitch!
Utter and complete nonsense!

The issue of safety is so bogus that even dedicated nationalists can see through the pretense.
In a blog article in of all places, nationalist website, Ameriquebec.net, the author notes that FIFA allows other soft body coverings;

"Modern protection devices, like head-covers, knee and elbow pads are made of soft material and aren't considered dangerous. They are therefore authorized."
"Thus, the FSQ should have the courage to say that the decision to ban the turban in soccer in Quebec has more to do with "religion" then with player safety."
Truer words were never spoken, the FSQ acted in an underhanded and devious manner to ban the turban by citing safety concerns and laying the blame on FIFA.
Nobody is fooled.

It's a plot!!!!!!
It is perhaps fairer to face the issue squarely and at least one Franco-supremicist Mathieu Bock-Coté is telling it like it is, the real reason for the ban, which is of course a question of religious intolerance, where Quebec nationalists like Mr Coté don't want public spaces polluted with the trappings of anti-Quebecois perceived religion.

He couldn't have been more blunt, telling readers that those who wear the turban or the kippa or the hijab, do so not so much to venerate their religion, but rather as a symbol of their resistance to Quebecois-style assimilation.
I kid you not.
Mr Mathieu Bock-Coté is the epitome of a paranoid Quebec conspiratorialist, where all surrounding events exist only to affect Quebec negatively.

Since the article is behind a paywall, permit me"
"These conspicuous religious symbols are not primarily worn to demonstrate the faith of wearer.  If this were the case, they could be discreet. Rather they have a political impact. They are foremost a  formal symbol of their refusal to integrate, in fact a provocation.  It's a game of tug of war meant to break the host society and force it to capitulate.

The Quebec government yesterday decided to support the FQS, a happy and courageous decision. It is not a case of looking for a fight with Ottawa, but just remember that behind this turban affair, true principles clash. Quebec is right not to be ashamed of itself."
("Car les symboles religieux ostentatoires ne témoignent pas d’abord de la foi de ceux qui les revêtent. Si tel était le cas, ils pourraient être discrets. Ils ont plutôt une portée politique. On les porte justement pour officialiser son refus de s’intégrer, à la manière d’une provocation. Et on joue au bras de fer pour casser la société d’accueil et la forcer à capituler.
Le gouvernement du Québec, hier, a pris la décision de soutenir la FQS. Heureuse et courageuse décision. Il ne cherche pas ainsi la chicane avec Ottawa, mais rappelle simplement que derrière cette affaire de turban, ce sont de véritables principes qui s’affrontent. Le Québec a raison de ne pas avoir honte des siens.")  Link
(I've presented some of the original French because as I said, the article is behind a paywall.)
Unbelievable!
Is this the next battle cry?
That turbans, kippas and hijabs, are ruthless symbols of anti-Quebecism and that six-year old boys and girls wearing the trappings of their religion are the child soldiers in a ruthless assault on the innocent?

This actually represents a nasty turning point, any religious trappings worn in public is to be considered pernicious by Quebec clansman like Bock-Coté.
It is a sick and perverted position and in the best tradition of racists, xenophobes and segregationists.

If Mathieu Bock-Coté is cheering on the Quebec government and the FSQ, I'm not so sure the rest of the public wants to push  the principle of Quebec fundamentalism by harassing children in removing them from the soccer pitch.
As the issue spirals out of control, Quebec faces its second Pastagate in a few short months, ridiculed around the world as petty, intolerant and utterly foolish.
And readers, the story is growing legs.... 
Swedish story on turban ban
Canadian Conflict Grows Out of Quebec Soccer Federation’s Ban on Turbans  New York Times
Quebec soccer federation gets red card for banning turban  BBC
Turban ban: Federation suspended  ESPN  
Sikh community finds Quebec turban-ban puzzling Star Phoenix

Turban ban prompts suspension of Quebec federation Associated Press

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/06/10/3444205/turban-ban-prompts-suspension.html#storylink=cpy
(This Associated Press story has been picked up by newspapers around North America, including Miami, Seattle, Las Vegas, San Diego, Omaha, Washington, to name just a few. It was also picked up by Salon.com and the Times of India.

Quebec soccer leaders cite safety on turban bans Sports illustrated 
Canadian Soccer Association suspends Quebec federation over turban ban  FOX News

Football :le Canada suspend le Québec pour avoir interdit le turban Le Monde

Le Québec isolé au Canada pour son refus du port du turban sur les terrains de football RFI

Football team in Canada suspended for turban ban Hindustan Times

Setback to Canadian sports body, suspended for turban ban Punjab Newsline
Voetbalbond Quebec geschorst om tulbandverbod   Belgium
Футбольная федерация Квебека подтвердила запрет на тюрбаны Russia
בגלל טורבן: קנדה השעתה את ההתאחדות של קוויבק  Israel

魁北克省足球协会禁止球员包锡克头巾的决定引起争议   China

캐나다 축구협회, 터번 착용 금지한 퀘벡지부 징계  Korea
كندا توقف العمل بقرار حظر "عمامة" اللاعبين "السيخ"  Saudi Arabia
Футбольная федерация Квебека подтвердила запрет на тюрбаны  Kazakhstan
Yup, it's even a story in Borat's homeland!
More worldwide humiliation....

In the end this issue will not be resolved in Quebec or even in Canada.
FIFA, the governing world body will have to take a definitive and official stand, they can either rule in favour of the turban, against the turban or make it a question to be resolved locally by the national federations it sanctions.

The one option that is not available, is the one Quebec wants most, that is to make the issue resolvable by federations sanctioned by the national federations, or more specifically provincial federations.

And so Pauline Marois is trying to make political hay over the issue claiming that the FSQ is not bound by decisions made by the CSA.
Contrary to what she tells us, the Fédération de soccer du Québec is very directly subordinate to the Canada Soccer Association. She and Bernard Drainville who speculated that the Quebec Association is autonomous must be dreaming in colour or smoking crack.

If the FSQ is not bound by the CSA, then how on Earth can the CSA suspend the FSQ and why then would the Quebec federation care!

It is beyond belief stupid.
This is another fine mess she's gotten us into!

P.S.
Readers, I invite you to copy and paste your related comments from the previous thread so that readers can enjoy the turban discussion in one place.

179 comments:

  1. Soccer match at sikh games in australia 2013

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bUHh38gZySA#!

    ?!?

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    1. Why aren't they wearing turbans the xenophobe asked, being so ignorant as to not realize people of the same religion have different interpretations and different practices all over the world or even in the same country.

      I'll put it in terms you'd understand, some roman catholic francophones in Quebec believe they can eat any type of meat on any day of the year, some believe they cannot. You cannot then point to the any time meat eaters and say "see all catholics can eat meat on everyday!", well I mean you could...but then you'd be a moron.

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  2. Since I am not a religious person (I sometimes describe myself as atheist with gusts up to agnostic), I do not speak about this issue as a self-interested person who it personally affects.

    The thing about the turban "issue"is that, it is like the issue about parking in, I believe, Cote St-Luc (or maybe Outremount) during certain Jewish celebrations.

    It was really not a problem in Quebec for so long, but now, just to show that people who believe in no "accomodations" of religion or minorities are in charge, it is made out to be one.

    It is not just francophone PQ separatists that think this way. There are many anglophones who think this way as well, people who think "why aren't they like us?"

    First of all, "they" are us. They are not immigrants. They are the children of immigrants. They are as much a part of Quebec as anyone else.

    Second of all, why should all people be the same? Societies evolve. Things change. We are not in the 1800's. Trying to keep a society the same as it was will always be a losing battle.

    Thirdly, if it doesn't affect you personally, just leave it alone. If someone wears a turban, they are not trying to convert you. Neither are people who wear hijabs. It is just something that someone wears because that is what they believe their religion asks of them.

    Door to door Jehovah's Witnesses are the only people who are trying to convert you and if you ignore them, they usually go away.

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    1. "Thirdly, if it doesn't affect you personally, just leave it alone."

      @Roger Rabbit
      You have expressed a sentiment best expressed by Thomas Jefferson over two hundred years ago:

      "But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."

      Good on you!

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    2. "Societies evolve. Things change. We are not in the 1800's"

      Mais les turbans sont toujours d'actualité...Étrange.

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    3. and S.R. is still butthurt and ranting about something that happened in 1759, very strange indeed.

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    4. @ Editor

      Although, not in relation to the exact same thing, I believe that this quote from Louis C.K. applies to this situation as well:

      "It doesn't have any effect on your life. What do you care?! People try to talk about it like it's a social issue. Like when you see someone stand up on a talk show and say, "How am I supposed to explain to my children that two men are getting married?... I dunno. It's your shitty kid. You fuckin' tell 'em. Why is that anyone else's problem? Two guys are in LOVE and they can't get married because you don't want to talk to your ugly child for five fuckin' minutes?”

      LMAO

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    5. I dont agree with the ban to start off with. But I do have problems with immigrants coming into the country and importing certain values which are completely at odds with the fundamental values of Canada. This is a country built on christian values and I have a problem with our constant accomodations to placate immigrants. For instance I find it appalling that in many instances you cant even use the word Christmas anymore without certain groups being offended..or putting a crucifix in a public building..allowing women to walk around so covered that you cant properly identify them for securityy purposes. There are huge problems in much of Europe right now because of the ever growing Muslim population which has values and ways very different from the traditional christian values. I am sure 30-40 years ago many people said exactly as some are saying now..oh well if people want to believe in what they want then thats their business. The problem is that eventually when these communities get large enough then they start demanding changes in the way the country is run to better reflect their values. Its a slippery slope that has to be managed carefully.

      As adski has pointed out many North Americans are part of the problem in the sense that our birthrates are so low. Why because most people now want it all.they dont want to sacrifice to have many children and live a more simple lifestyle. Hence we need immigrants but personally I think we should be a lot more selective of the type of immigrants we accept to make sure that their core values are more in line with the values that Canada was built on.

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    6. Then start making babies, complicated. We need fresh blood to pay your retirement cheques, and we have to import it from where we can - islamic countries. We can't turn around and say "Welcome to Canada, leave your identity at the door". You want lilly-white christians to pay your pension cheques, you make them.

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    7. I have done my fair share..already have three of them. But I dont see too many families around with more than one or two even though they live in houses double the size of the average house in the 1950s. But again that would interfere with their lifestyle. Too many people want the big house..the jacuzzi tub..the double garage..a new house..2 new cars..new furniture..2-3 nice vacations per year..nice clothers and on and on. A big part of why we have such small families is the selfishness of most Canadians.
      I think we could do a much better job of attracting non-muslim immigrants..there are a lot of europeans who are struggling now. It seems to me that Ontario was putting more effort in promoting itself to potential Irish immigrants..Ireland is struggling now..Spain/France/Italy..even jolly old England..in my opinion a lot easier to integrate people from these countries. This idealistic notion that we can just take in anyone from anywhere ad infinitum and it will never affect our fundamental values is fanciful thinking and oh so much part of the politicially correct culture infecting much of Canada.

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    8. Sikhs and Muslims are different, all that we ask is that there are no issues when a baptized Sikh wears a kirpan (ceremonial dagger)or a turban as our identity. People say why cant they just be like us etc but they dont understand our ancestors laid down their lives for their turban. Rather than cutting their hair, we faced many atrocities at the hands of mughals (muslim empire from afghanistan). Quebecers think that we religious minorites are trying to push beliefs on to them but imagine a time with no democracy and the sword talked. Where mughals would come onto your land and give you a choice: either convert to islam or die. Why in the world would we remove our turbans for something like a game when we didnt when death was the consequence ? Sikhs fought in many wars for the British and Canada. The media has it kind of mixed up, we arent literally going play in a huge turban, that would make no sense. But when playing sports, sikhs who keep their hair wear a patka which is similar to a "durag" the urban african-american community wears. Please get your facts straight.

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  3. From: http://www.montrealgazette.com/life/Turban+Quebec+Soccer+Federation+attempting+reach+settlement+with+Canadian+association/8514613/story.html#ixzz2W3mUAjJk

    The turban controversy has stirred some frustration in sociologist Gérard Bouchard, who co-chaired months of public hearings across Quebec in 2007 on accommodating religious and cultural beliefs.

    “It sends a signal that Quebec has not advanced,” he said in an interview from the Université du Québec à Chicoutimi, where he is a professor of history and social sciences. The disagreement has now become so polarized, it is difficult for both sides to save face and have a cool debate, he said. That sets a bad example for everyone, he added, especially the children.

    “Let the kids play together,” he said. “It doesn’t infringe on anybody’s rights, it doesn’t cause chaos, it doesn’t hurt anyone.”

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  4. Apparently, Quebec’s ethnic nationalists don’t care what the rest of the world thinks of us, but the majority of we Quebecers do care about our image abroad. Are pequistes actually so sheltered and bubbled-up in their own culture that they don’t realize they are a part of the world, just like all of the other Western societies are?

    The statement that stands out for me is how “Quebec used to be a bastion of inclusiveness and an ardent defender of civil rights.” What has happened to us since then??

    With turban ruling, Quebec has reached its historic peak of intolerance

    SUPRIYA DWIVEDI The Globe and Mail Published Tuesday, Jun. 11 2013

    Last week the Quebec Soccer Federation decided to maintain its ban on Sikh turbans, a policy that began its implementation around the province last year. The religious headgear worn by Sikh men allegedly poses a safety threat when worn on the pitch.

    This is, of course, a testament to Quebec’s distinct-society mantra, as the Canadian Soccer Association has been calling for provincial associations to allow turbans on the pitch since April. The CSA issued a statement late last week reaffirming its position that turbans should be allowed on the pitch, and in a much-anticipated tipping point, suspended the QSF over its turban stance on Monday night.

    With Quebec politicians of every stripe refusing to wade into the apparent controversy of letting children play a game they love, we Quebecers need to get introspective and ask ourselves what kind of a distinct society we have become. Quebec is the only province to explicitly denounce the federal policy of multiculturalism. This is reflected in a recent poll commissioned by the Quebec government, revealing that 81 per cent of Quebeckers support making no accommodations for religious dress in a sporting situation. Thus it should come as no surprise that the QSF would partake in the targeted discrimination towards one religious group.

    The QSF is claiming that its decision is in line with FIFA, the international soccer organization that oversees major international tournaments. Yes, the same organization that mandates regular blood-doping tests for its players is being cited as a justification for preventing children from playing in a recreational league. I can only assume the QSF will ensure that little Pierre and Marie-Claude will be subject to regular blood tests any day now.

    It should be pointed out that the very FIFA rule the QSF is citing as justification calls for the referee’s discretion in the matter, and not an all-out ban. Therein lies the core of Quebec’s intolerance: an incongruence between the set of rules for pure laine Quebeckers – those with exclusively French Canadian ancestry – and those for the rest of us. Clearly, the QSF does not strictly enforce all FIFA rules in their recreational leagues, as it would be arduous and entirely unnecessary. Yet, when applied to Sikhs, it has decided to adopt the most rigorous interpretation of the rules.

    Having recently made international headlines for the “pastagate” scandal, Quebec is clearly no stranger to controversy. Culminating in the resignation of the head of the Office Québécois de la langue française, colloquially referred to as the language police, it seemed as though sending an official warning to an Italian restaurant for having the word “pasta” on its menu was a line in the sand for many Quebeckers. Unfortunately, however, it was clear that it was not, as Bill 14, which expands the language restrictions in Bill 101, passed second reading in the National Assembly. Bill 14, which has received a condemnation from the Quebec Bar Association, has the effect of trampling on the basic civil liberties of citizens all in the name of linguistic purity.

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    1. Voted in with a razor-thin minority, the separatist Parti Québécois have been kindling the culture wars into an all-out inferno. Set to unveil a Charter of Quebec Values this fall, the PQ government seeks to ban all religious dress and symbols from public institutions – with the exception of those representing Catholicism. Thus, whereas hijabs and yarmulkes would not be allowed, crucifixes would be.

      The particularly vexing aspect of all of this is that Quebec used to be a bastion of inclusiveness and an ardent defender of civil rights. In 1832 it granted Jewish citizens equal rights under the law, the first jurisdiction under the British Crown to do so. Quebec was the land that welcomed Jackie Robinson at a time when everybody else failed to step up to the racial-equality plate. While the rest of Canada was still having a moral dilemma regarding equal protection for same-sex couples, Quebec led the charge.

      Hitherto, as reasonable-accommodation debates have come to occupy the forefront of our political discourse, there has been a perceptible shift among politicians, pundits and the populace. Obsessions with linguistic and cultural purity, xenophobia and generalized Franco-supremacy are at an all-time high in the province. With an entire subset of children quite literally forced to watch idly from the sidelines as their peers play on, it would seem as though Quebec has finally reached the lowest common denominator of intolerance. Distinct society indeed.

      Supriya Dwivedi is pursuing graduate legal studies and is a radio talk show host for CJAD 800 in Montreal. You can follow her on Twitter @supriyadwivedi

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    2. I dont have a problem at all with the following notion..

      the PQ government seeks to ban all religious dress and symbols from public institutions – with the exception of those representing Catholicism. Thus, whereas hijabs and yarmulkes would not be allowed, crucifixes would be.

      First of all the crucifix is a christian symbol not just a catholic one. Our country was built and founded by christians and on core christian values. Unfortunately these values have been eroded steadiy for decades now. Now its become the norm to ban any sort of christian reference in our school system because we might offend the non-christians who are increasing in numbers. Now we cant use the word Christmas because it offends non=christians. Now people are criticizing the government for leaving crucifixes in the parliament..whats next..seriously.

      The problem again with allowing more and more non-christians into this country is that they will exert more and more pressure on the government to more or less eliminate our christian heritage. We already dont have much culture or heritage in this country..if we just say sit back and passively let our fundamental values and heritage disappear then who knows what type of country we will end up with in 50-100 years. Not sure I want to be around to see this.



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  5. And now we have Turban-gate
    Stay tuned folks - can't wait to see what Quebec pulls off next month............
    They are burying themselves in their own excrement

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    1. @sicktodeathofitall

      "They are burying themselves in their own excrement"

      Well...it is what they do best !! LOL...let's not mess with talent !!! LOLOLOLOL

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  6. OMG… you’d almost think that franco-Quebecers have had limited contact with anyone who is not the same as them…

    Oh, wait…

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  7. Repost from June12

    Pauline did the political math and has come down firmly in the camp filled with the racists, bigots and un-educated, in other words, the traditional PQ base. Once FIFA rules in favour of children playing soccer with turbans, which it will, what will her position be? What will be their excuse? This news is making waves in India, a market of a Billion people, and it makes Quebec look like a bunch of backwater hicks. How many C-Series jets will Bombardier sell there now? Way to go Pauline, you've managed to insult a whole sub-continent while making us look like unsophisticated fools. How low can you go?

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  8. Just wait and see the reaction if Québec ever tries to outlaw the wearing of yarmulkes by Jews. The sikhs are a test by nationalists to test public reaction before they advance further to rid Québec of their undesirables

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    1. QSF director Brigitte Frot has already stated that kippahs are also verboten on the after-school playgrounds of Quebec:
      http://www.thesuburban.com/article.php?id=1576&title=Soccer-Quebec-Stands-Behind-Religious-Headwear-Ban-Decision

      Remember: Only Catholic items are allowed under Quebec secularism "values" system, because they have "heritage" value!

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    2. Pure laine only is wanted here!
      This is Quebec's "heritage"!
      These are Quebec's "values"!

      Pure laine POWER, baby!!

      Know your place if you deign to come live here like we did because this is PURE LAINE LAND!!!

      We have perpetual grievances here and if you don’t adopt them, then you’re not one of us.

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    3. Well, yeah, OK maybe if you speak some funny French dialect already, we might let you in….. BUT THAT’S IT!!!!

      Otherwise, forget it! You’re useless to us. We don’t care if you promise to learn French.
      (well, except if you listen to Marie-Mai)

      Delete
    4. And only if you like her already otherwise, raus! SCHNELL!!

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    5. @ pure laine:
      I do see the sarcasm however, yes Quebec is distinct.
      Your bashing on my home land will inevitable result in an escalation towards balkanisation.

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    6. @ Pure laine:

      Is that you, Matthieu Bock-Cote?

      lol

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    7. If I hear another politician say that "diversity is our strength," I will respond with, "bullsh*t."

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    8. " yes Quebec is distinct."

      Very distinct, to the tune of 20 billion dollars a year out of the pockets of the ROC.


      "Your bashing on my home land will inevitable result in an escalation towards balkanization"

      Might be very well a good thing..with regards to the costs involved (extortion) with keeping the "distinct" nation within Canada.








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    9. I love diversity. I am not into monoculture.

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    10. Westerner- why would it be extortion in Quebec's case and not in any one else's?

      Quebec isn't getting equalization and federal transfers because of some sweetheart deal to keep them in Canada, they are getting them because they are poor. Another province with the same statistics as Quebec wouldn't receive any less.

      There are many arguments to be made against equalization, but preferentialism isn't one of them.

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    11. I would argue that Yannick - they are poor because of poor decisions - that should not make the ROC pay them to make these decisions. $7.00/day day care that no other province has not because they wouldn't like it but because they can't afford it - just one example. Not taking advantage of the natural resources they have because they do not want to share proceeds with the ROC - another example of why they get extraordinary transfer payments. These two decisions alone make them poorer than other provinces thereby gaining this money through sneaky manipulation instead of being above board. Another is we have far too many bums that aren't interested in working. This province lacks pride in it's work ethic and God only knows how we will ever improve that.

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    12. I agree more with Cutie on this one. Quebec is poor because they mismanage their own money. They also know how to play the game..they know the rules of this program inside out and how to maximize the transfers from the rest of the country. They are complete hypocrites on the one hand frequently attacking Alberta and the oil sands yet with another hand they are receiving billions and billions from equalization which essentially is mostly funded by oilsands money. If you really want to take a moral stand then dont accept the "dirty" money. Then again I have been told that people in Atlantic Canada for decades became experts at manipulating the EI program..working a couple months then getting their EI cheque for the rest of the year.

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    13. complicated

      "Then again I have been told that people in Atlantic Canada for decades became experts at manipulating the EI program..working a couple months then getting their EI cheque for the rest of the year. "

      That's the 1990's you are referring to. Yes the East Coast were experts at manipulating the EI program. Now that same manipulation is done by Quebec on it's seasonal workers that account for 40% of the program across Canada.

      Newfoundland, NS, PEI were able to solve a problem Quebec cannot.

      In Newfoundland etc these lowlife workers that play the system were not respected like in Quebec.

      In quebec being a seasonal working ripping off the govt is a point of pride to boast about down at the brasserie with the contruction union.

      Imagine any other major city that does 8 hours per day shift to fix major highways. Everyday we drive home from work and all the construction sites are already empty for the day.

      Employment problem? Hire more workers and start to fix our highways 24x7.

      The mafia will be ok with it as long as they get their cut. The businesses will still keep kicking back the cash so that will be ok. It's only the PQ that stands to lose. They will dilute their PQ pure laine construction union with "immigrants" and other undesirables that don;t vote as they are told.

      Quebec construction union, lazy, under worked and overpaid.

      It's not "maitre chez nous" it's "voleur chez nous" in Quebec.

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    14. Even if Atlantic Canada were guilty of manipulating the system, at least they weren't out bitching every bloody day about how they don't need the ROC to survive. They shut their mouths, said thank you, and lived their lives. Wonderful Canadians down east that do have a work ethnic - many of the fisherman I knew would have much preferred working than sitting home of their duffs like a lot of our separatist friends demanding more and more of the government and less and less from themselves. The "entitlement" mentality is much more prominent in quebec than any other province.

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    15. Perhaps..I am not saying Quebec seasonal workers arent a large group but there are also many in Atlantic Canada. Per capita I believe there are more people on EI in Atlantic Canada than in Quebec..but again everybody focuses on Quebec.
      Looking at these stats from 2010..there are way more people on EI per capita than here in Quebec. But its so much easier and more fun to trash Quebec all the time. But the levels in Quebec are still high..much higher than any other province to the west of it.
      But there seems to be an awful lot of money flowing into Quebec and Atlantic Canada from the rest of the country..lets be fair here. But people focus on the actual numbers not the per capita numbers which always make it sounds so much worse for Quebec.

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    16. We don't scrutinize anyone else's expenditure of equalization payments - precisely because it is no-strings money. That's the whole idea behind the program.

      If Quebec wants to ratch up the highest debt AND taxes of the country to fund 7$ a day daycare, it really has little to do with equalization. Even with equalization money, the poor provinces are poorer than the rich provinces.

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    17. And heard on the 6:00 news that the construction workers are threatening to go on strike unless they get a pay increase like they honestly deserve this yet again. The poor things only earn an average of $33.00/hr. The demands just never see a bottom in this province. The earn just about as much as doctors, leave school in Grade 8, and expect to earn Miss Piggy's salary (which some of them could probably do a better job)

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    18. "well, except if you listen to Marie-Mai"

      Who?

      (Cutie...LOL, have you googled her yet?...LOLOLOL)

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    19. "Well, yeah, OK maybe if you speak some funny French dialect already, we might let you in….. BUT THAT’S IT!!!! Otherwise, forget it! You’re useless to us. We don’t care if you promise to learn French."

      You forget this part: "But we'll still take your money"

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    20. AnecTOTE,

      Have you actually listened to Marie-Mai? Believe you me, she is a talented artist. However, by limiting herself in French, she really puts the glass ceiling over her head.

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    21. Troy...you've convinced me...I'll look her up.....youtube?? lol
      Let you know !! lololol

      Delete
    22. "they are getting them because they are poor"

      So why is Quebec so poor, as you say? 2nd largest province in Canada.

      Hydro, a bilingual work force in Montreal.

      Ask yourself the question and when you think a bit..you might receive the answer.

      Montreal used to be a powerful city with a powerful economy. Look at the atrophy....what is the cause.





      Delete
    23. @yannick @westerner

      quebec is poor?!? what's your metric? who are you comparing to?

      Delete
    24. AnecTOTE,

      I wrote this example before, I am writing it again. Do you know Natasha Bedingfield? She is a rather well-known British singer with a number of hits, including a Grammy nomination. Now compare these videos. Both are Simple Plan with its hit Jet Lag, one in English featuring Bedingfield and one bilingual featuring Marie-Mai.

      Compare them. For me, I like the Marie-Mai version better. And I think she is physically more attractive - even though nobody can say that Natasha Bedingfield is less than hot, hot, hot. So how come that Marie-Mai is virtually unknown outside of this province?

      Delete
    25. @Westerner : Yes, I don't disagree. But we don't subject Manitoba, New-Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Prince Edwards' Island, and formerly Saskatchewan and Newfoundland to that standard, do we?

      The federal's job is to be fair to all the provinces. To give into arbitrariness would be playing Quebec's game and giving up the moral high ground.

      Delete
    26. @first time poster: I do see the sarcasm however, yes Quebec is distinct.

      Yes indeed, exactly like Montreal is distinct from Quebec.

      Also, please don’t make assumptions. Quebec is my homeland too, quite possibly for much longer than it has been yours. Balkanisation is the goal of the separatists, not me.

      And pointing out absurdities in current events is not “bashing”. In future, I would respectfully suggest that you expunge that word from your vocabulary and try out some less simplistic explanations instead.

      Delete
    27. You know, quite the opposite from “bashing”, we are demonstrating LOVE for our home province, Quebec. Yes, indeed. It’s true. Otherwise, we wouldn’t bother to be here. Deal with it.

      Delete
    28. It's the same thing with Pierre Bouvier, lead singer of Simple Plan... as well as with all the other band members, Sébastien Lefebvre, Jeff Stinco, David Desrosiers and Charles-André “Chuck” Comeau. They don’t have this “allergy” toward anything English nor this fear of assimilation that pequistes have based their existence on.

      Delete
    29. Quebec could be such a better place if only everyone were able to adopt such a live-and-let-live attitude.

      Unfortunately, after four decades of having the PQ drill this nation-building mythology into some people’s heads, it would be like trying to put toothpaste back in the tube. Thus, Quebec is now condemned to continue down this unsatisfying path for all, forever.

      Delete
    30. @ Troy

      Turns out I've heard plenty of Marie-Mai and never knew it. My daughter even put one of her songs in a video she did this year for a school project and was shocked to hear I didn't know it was her...LOL... (Right now all I listen to is Amy Winehouse myself). She's okay, would I buy a CD, or download her music? Probably not, but yeah, perhaps if she'd pick up some English, her career could really change and blossom in markets where it counts. Maybe she's not interested in becoming that big...who knows. As for her 'hotness'...as a woman I may not be the best to judge on that issue...(okay maybe she is attractive)...lolol...leave that to you men out there.

      Delete
  9. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE FRANKFORTThursday, June 13, 2013 at 6:20:00 AM EDT

    I said it before and I will say it again:
    About the turban thingy.... yes Canada is a country and a society that is permissive, nice and tolerant. Yes some immigrants have different religions, etc.
    But think of this for a minute. For some reason you decide to emigrate to say, India. See how it takes to be criticized, harassed or worst for how you dress, how you think, why you act a certain way, etc.
    Consider this for a minute.
    See these in case you think I am racist (right, Diogene?).
    Two ugly videos about christians (you & I) being persecuted in India:
    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/publiccatholic/2013/03/is-there-christian-persecution-in-india/
    http://www.ad2000.org/re90719.htm
    http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1947885/pg1

    Once again, I suppport the ban. I do not incite hate and I am not racist. When in some countries YOU will be arrested for some behaviour that is normal in Canada. Don't believe me? Go to any country in the Middle East and organize a gay pride event. Here in Canada we are reasonable.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. DHockeyGuy

      So you advocate emulating countries where intolerance is promoted and violence is an acceptable response to non conformity? Your statement above does not support your contention that you are not racist. Sorry.

      Delete
    2. Hmmmm..."two ugly videos about christians (you and I) being persecuted)"

      Interesting. First of all, I am not a Christian and secondly, I don't buy into your us vs them paradigm.

      In addition, I find it even more interesting that you would want to compare us to third world dictatorships and places where the economy is not fully developed, as opposed to Europe, the rest of North America, or other developed economies.

      What a comparism! In Syria, they will persecute someone for being gay, so "we" Quebeckers should persecute Sikhs for wearing turban "thingies."

      Great argument, indeed.

      Delete
    3. You can take the racist out of Quebec, but you can't take the racism out of him.

      Delete
    4. Un Gars said:"Once again, I suppport the ban. I do not incite hate and I am not racist."
      You support a racist action, but you don't think you're a racist. You might not wear a white sheet and call yourself Imperial Wizard, but stop kidding yourself: you're a racist. Other than hate, there is no valid reason for preventing a couple of hundred kids wearing turbans from playing soccer with other kids.

      Delete
    5. Salut Yannick,

      Vous savez, Yannick, parfois les adultes causent plus de trouble que les enfants. Dans cette situation, les enfants voudraient juste jouer un jeu. Les adultes (la fédération du soccer Québecois, le chef du PQ) - c'est eux qui veulent ajouter un enjeux politique.

      The thing about racists, regardless of language spoken, is that they don't know that they're racist. They always start with " I am not racist...BUT..." - "Je ne suis pas raciste...MAIS."

      I was reading one of the English newspaper sites and a guy started with " I am not racist BUT" and he said how immigrants should follow our rules, etc, etc, and then he ended with "...and if I ever saw a guy with a turban on a soccer field, I would rip that rag off his head."

      uh...yeah, there buddy, you're not racist, eh?!? nooOOooOOoOOoo

      Delete
    6. Entièrement d'accord M. Roger Rabbit. Qu'est-ce qu'on en a à cirer, de ce que les gens veulent se mettre sur la tête?

      I don't get it.

      Delete
    7. Ce n'est pas tellement ce qu'ils portent sur leur têtes le problème,c'est ce qu'il y a derrière qui est inquiétant.

      Delete
    8. The benefits of having kids play and learn together far outweighs the unspecified fears adults have in terms of benefiting integration.

      Delete
  10. I love it. To all you Pure lainers ( French bigots)...the world is watching the racist province of Quebec.

    These people are the most racist, bigoted, corrupt, xenophobic people in all of North America. If the world only knew what was going on in Canada, what the French were really up to…along with the racist anti-English language laws in Quebec a la bills 22, 178, 101…they have bragged about taking all of Canada and everything seems to be going as planned…”first Quebec, then the rest of the country…one step at a time…” PET, “how to take over a country through bilingualism…” SD

    Quebec has been robbing Canada blind for decades now. Since Trudeau and his gang of bigots from Quebec arrived in Ottawa in the 1960’s, they have been funnelling billions upon billions into Quebec every year…an absolute disgrace. And how do they say thanks in french? Well try decades of anti-English language laws like bills 22, 178, 101…nice eh?

    The clips below points a lot of this out…just the facts folks.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BW33xkVB-oI

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhPcV0gtFR0

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abOWJkf-Vh8

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @ James Wolf

      While you are intitled to your owm biased opinion, may I suggest that you move out of Quebec if it does not fit you.
      In the case you have already left or never lived in Quebec you should occupy your time pursuing better pet projects.
      Likewise for the rest of Quebec bashers on here.

      Delete
    2. "Likewise for the rest of Quebec bashers on here"

      No bashing involved if statements are factual and are grounded. Just a statement of the truth.

      Was Macleans Magazine bashing when they sounded the alarm on the corruption in Quebec? No, just stating facts that in recent times have been born out to be true.

      Sorry if it offends you but stating facts is not bashing.

      Delete
    3. How to say "thank you in French?" "Mercy buckets!"

      Delete
    4. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    5. "Was Macleans Magazine bashing when they sounded the alarm on the corruption in Quebec?"

      Le bashing provient du fait qu'ils insinuent que la corruption n'est présente qu'au Québec.

      Delete
    6. It's not difficult to write terrible things about quebec - pick up any newspaper, magazine, turn on your radio or TV and you'll find all kinds of things that are wrong with this province and it's society. I don't care if anyone calls it quebec bashing; I calls em as I see's em. Stop making asses of yourselves and there will be no quebec bashing.

      Delete
    7. "bashing provient du fait qu'ils insinuent "

      Pas de "bashing" ...Suele la verite. (Trembly, Vallaincourt etc etc etc........)

      Quebec est tres triste, comme toi.

      Always count your fingers, after the handshake, when you do business in la belle province.



      Delete
    8. It's fascinating how Trudeau is reviled by extreme opposites for equally opposite reasons.

      Delete
    9. That's just extremists being extremists. There is no middle ground.

      Delete
    10. Westerner, you dont; have to count your fingers. You won;t get any business in Quebec.

      Firstly you arn;t corrupt enough here to bribe your way into every contract.

      The bribe will cost much more since you are an anglo.

      It's only called "Quebec bashing" by the people doing the corruption or allowing it to continue.

      Quebec doesn;t want to be informed about things. The PQ Quebec francophone is so insecure that any reference to the province that isn;t overly effusive and positive is "bashing and hating".

      Quebec culture can;t stand up to inspection. They need to try to divert attention so you don;t look at the details of what goes on here.

      It;s like the Macleans story. PQ quebecers are far more upset that Canada knows and is laughing at them then they are about the dysfunctional system they have built.

      What we realize now of course is that most government business is "theater". It's all politicians playing favorites to their cronies in Quebec.

      Charbonneau has been extended an extra year in it's mandate but yet PQ Quebcers are really still upset about MacLeans article.

      It's exactly this reason we have the Cliche commission 40 years ago and in another 40 years there will be yet another construction commission.

      Quebecers are only interested in stopping the criticism of them. They arn;t the least bit interested in solving the corruption. Corruption IS the dominante culture in Quebec.

      Change is not possible. Quebecers without corruption would be American or from Ontario.

      Delete
    11. James Wolfe - Those videos are just pure propoganda. Talk about manipulating numbers. The one video focuses on the percentage of Canadians who speak french only which of course is very small outside of Quebec. Then the author uses this to argue that there is no point in having bilingualism. The reality is that the vast majority of francophones in the rest of Canada are bilingual because they have no choice hence they fall in the french and english category. So the video is grossly underestimating the number of francophones in the rest of Canada. 33 percent of people in New Brunswick are bilingual..the vast majority of those being francophone..11 percent in Ontario. So there are a lot more francophones out there than this video leads one to believe. On top of it the whole reason so many francophones are bilingual is because they never had proper servcies in their lnaguage outside of canada..they couldnt work easily in french so they HAD to learn english. If we were truly a bilingual coountry in the first place as the author claims then why would so many francophones be forced to learn english..

      The author then goes on and on about how anglophones cant work for the government because of the bilingual requirements. Since when are anglophones incapable of learning french?? How come its expected that all francophones be bilingual yet anglophones are almost expected to remain unilingual? There are french immersion schools all across this country..any anglophone with a bit of motivation can become bilingual if they really want those bilingual federal service jobs.

      The videos imply that Quebec is not bilingual and one cannot get any service in english in Quebec. Really - I live in Montreal and use english every day in stores, businesses. I can even call the Quebec government and be served in english and get forms in english. I may need to request service in english but I always get it. There are two major english universities in a city with maybe 800,000 anglos..there are english cegeps, they are even building an english super hospital!!! There are english tv stations, english radio stations, etc. So again more propoganda to imply that you will never be served in english in quebec..some parts of quebec this is true but certainly not in areas like Montreal and other parts of southern Quebec. Maybe the author should follow some francophones around in the Prairies or most of the rest of Canada and see how often a francophone is served in this supposedly bilingual country that the author repeats over and over.

      Then the author shows pictures of store signs and even a street sign in Embrun Ontario that are in french only..omg!!! As if this is some sort of travesty that a business in a mainly franco-ontarian community has signs only in french. I see signs in english all the time in quebec..such as gap, toys r us, walmart, canadian tire, starbucks, body shop, apple, and on and on and on. I see tons of street signs with english words..such as broadview, maclean, stonecrest, silverbirch, wilson - oh mon dieu!!!
      But yes its true that english normally has to be smaller but many companies avoid this somehow.

      So once again an incredibly biased and unfair set of videos with half-truths or statements filtered through the eyes of an angryphone.

      Delete
    12. I am an anglophone and I can tell you that although in the past, I have said that usually you can find someone to help you in English, on the island of Montreal in a store, it is not really 100% true. Alot of the time, some people will refuse to speak English, and have a bad attitude about it. It doesn't really affect me that much since I can speak French. It is just that the political climate that is encouraged in this province by the media and by politians creates conditions for some to think that they can treat customers rudely as if they are a bother. It is hard for anglophones to get service in English in Montreal, even though, they are about 800 000 strong.

      As for getting service in French in the Prairies, there is not as large a contingent of francophones there as there are anglophones in Quebec. They are not even the first minority language there. The OLA provides that government services be available in French outside Quebec, not that everyone is bilingual in all of Canada. I do expect francophones to get government services outside of Quebec but I wouldn't expect them to be able to get French service in retail stores as there numbers don't really warrant that availability, just as I wouldn't expect an anglophone to be able to easily get English service in a store Herouxville, QC.

      Delete
    13. A fairer comparison might be Moncton New-Brunswick where 1/3 the population is Francophone, yet only 25% of anglophones speak French, so getting French service is haphazard at best.

      I bet it's comparatively much easier to get English service in Montreal.

      Delete
    14. Difficile a dire.

      Je suppose que je vais devoir visiter Moncton un jour et voir si c'est vrai.

      Delete
    15. I am not saying that getting French service in Moncton isn't always easy. It's just, right now, it's hard for me to compare it to Montreal. I know what Montreal is like. I don't know what Moncton is like at all.

      Stats may indicate that they are relatively the same proportion-wise. On the island of Montreal, 25% of the pop is anglo, 25% allo, 50% franco. I would say that roughly 80% of anglos and allos are English/French bilingual and about 25% of francos can speak English.

      So, I would also say that English in Montreal is haphazard. I can go to a major grocery store in Verdun and not find anyone that can speak English and yet I can go to a major grocery store in Lasalle, an adjacent burrough, and the workers can speak both languages. It is very hit and miss.

      It's not so much the fact that some people are unilingual French that bothers me. Rather, it would be the attitude of "I don't have to speak English. This is Quebec."

      If someone is unilingual French and tries to help me as much as possible, then I have no problem with it.

      Unfortunately this kind of attitude is discouraged and that's why some anglophones are frustrated.

      Delete
    16. "While you are intitled to your owm biased opinion, may I suggest that you move out of Quebec if it does not fit you.
      In the case you have already left or never lived in Quebec you should occupy your time pursuing better pet projects.
      Likewise for the rest of Quebec bashers on here."

      But if people don't bash you how else will you tweak and try to improve yourselves? LOL...Not to mention, you give everyone plenty of reasons to bash you. In all fairness, some of us bash Quebec and Canada alike....there...does that make you feel better???...Here have a lollipop..LOL

      How's this, if you don't like what is being said here...on this blog...then YOU can leave and don't let the door hit your sorry ass on the way out.

      Delete
    17. The difference in attitude from the francophone towards the anglophones has changed drastically since the election of the PQ and the brainwashing tactics of the IF groups. Telling the francophone population on a daily basis to speak french only, all the time, or they are being disrespected is a pile of hooey but some of the francophones fall for the BS. A lot of them now speak "down" to the anglophones instead of having the mutual respect that humans are supposed to have for one another. I see it from the clerks in stores now whereas I never encountered this problem before last fall. IF is spending a lot of money on these ads on TV and radio (subsidized by the PQ party and OUR OWN TAXES) to turn them against us. Terrible manipulation by these language bigots but they have no shame in any prejudice moves they make.

      Delete
    18. I fully understand why some anglophones are frustrated, Roger. I don't see bilingualism as a zero-sum game, so I am against that kind of game.

      I might suggest that since 40% of all Quebecers are bilingual and Montrealers are more likely to be bilingual than the average Quebecer, the bilingualism rate in Montreal should be higher. It might be a perception thing - and lower-wage occupations may attract higher numbers of non-bilingual francophones.

      Delete
    19. "The difference in attitude from the francophone towards the anglophones has changed drastically since the election of the PQ and the brainwashing tactics of the IF groups"

      Cutie I am beginning to think, that it is not entirely "brainwashing", please understand, what I am about to say, isn't in anyway to defend the PQ (lord help me), but I no longer buy that it's totally and completely brainwashing. The silient majority buy into it because it is convient for them to do so, and they to, deep down, share these racist beliefs, otherwise, they would be out in the streets denouncing the injustice of something like this. They would be outraged and insensed. Nah...sorry...they are as much to blame as those in power, cause those in power are simply singing the rhetoric the silient majority loves to hear.

      Delete
    20. When I think about it, Yannick, it is probably true when you say that lower wage occupations may attract less bilingual people. However, as I said before, the fact someone is unilingual will not bother me as much as a bad attitude.

      It's funny, attitude makes a big difference. Sometimes, I think the anonymity of the internet allows some posters to post alot of BS and hyperbole, whereas in real life, as a federalist anglophone man, I have worked with separatist francophone women and I can get along with them.

      As for the 40% stat, as Mark Twain once said there are "lies, damned lies, and statistics"
      I know that officially, the stats say what you say but I find that there are many people in Quebec, anglophones and francophones alike, will say to a pollster that they are bilingual but sometimes they are not good at assessing themselves. If it takes 5 minutes to say 2 sentences in mispronounced gibberish, you're not really bilingual. I don't mean to be a snob because I know I am not as bilingual as you or about 10% of the francophone population who are truly bilingual but I know my limitations. I never say that I am fluently bilingual because I am not.

      Good on the people who do try, though.

      Delete
    21. Fair enough - but one would think the same of the 25% of Moncton anglophones who self-assess as bilingual as well, yes?

      But you're right - it's all about attitude. And the news report that have been coming out of Quebec for the past year are troubling.

      Delete
  11. A copy-paste from yesterday:

    Here's Marie Malavoy complaining about the Quebec Soccer Federation's suspension by the Canadian Soccer Association. Note that she's talking about how certain kids could be excluded from the Canadian Summer Games in Sherbrooke, and how she feels that's unfair:

    «Je vais aller à l'ouverture de ces jeux et je compte bien avoir des joueurs de soccer du Québec. Il y a plein de jeunes qui se préparent à y aller et tout à coup ils se font dire, ça ne sera pas pour vous», a-t-elle expliqué. «Je pense aux jeunes qui sont des amoureux du soccer et qui sont pris dans une controverse.»

    Does anyone else see the irony in this?
    This is all because Quebec wanted to exclude certain kids from playing, and now they complain that the exact same thing will happen?

    After will they complain that the ROC is being unfair to us poor Québécois, as usual? Yup!
    "Elle a continué à souligner le côté «extrêmement autoritaire» de la décision de l'association."

    Ridiculous...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Ironic indeed.

      Since there was no controversy in Quebec before QSF director Brigitte Frot banned kids with turbans from playing organized soccer, I believe she should resign.

      Delete
    2. "Since there was no controversy in Quebec before QSF director Brigitte Frot banned kids with turbans from playing organized soccer, I believe she should resign."

      Oh yeahhhh at the very least, I'd even go as far as suing her for what she said. "let them play in their back yards" ????? WHO THE F...SAYS THAT???

      Delete
    3. Surtout que les "turbannés" n'ont même pas de cours arrières.Mdr

      Ils devront jouer dans la rue :)

      Delete
    4. Has anyone told you today, that you're an asshole?

      You're an Asshole!

      Delete
    5. Oui,ma conjointe et elle me le rappelle tous les jours.

      Delete
    6. @ AnecTOTE

      I agree with you. It's really in bad taste what she said. There was even someone in the background laughing as she said that. I don't think we should waste taxpayer money on people like her, who are supposed to bring people together through sport.

      She is a failure at her job. She has created controversy where there was none.

      Brigitte Frot should resign.

      Delete
    7. @quebecker of tree stump

      i see some irony in this too: english canada goes beserk over a quebec football federation decision that will affect max 200 players max assuming all sikh parents rank showing off their religion through their kid's hairdo higher than playing some sports. after a few days of lamenting how bad it is for these poor sikh kids they dismiss the quebec federation, affecting thousands of totally innocent players! now that's ironic.

      if someone is playing a political game at the kid's detriment here, it's the roc, mate.

      Delete
    8. The PQ is embarassing us in front of the whole world.

      Shame on them.

      Delete
  12. What is disturbing to me is that Quebec wants people to assimilate to their beliefs and way of life.My question is...why has Quebec not assimilated to the rest of North America?It is a valid question,if they want visible minorities to assimilate,Quebec is a visible minority in North America and should follow their own guidelines!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. that was our first mistake mazzy - we let them believe they were "special" because we tried to assist them in their quest to keep their culture and language and they have turned the tables on us with their hate and total disregard of our values as a society. I'm sure everyone is looking back an trying to make sense of what went wrong: they now believe they are so "special" that they don't have to live among us anymore! Many lessons to be learned out of this mess we have created. They now want to swallow us whole!

      Delete
  13. I am a Quebecer,i live in Montreal i am somewhat billinugual.I do not feel "special" but more of an outcast because i want to treat everyone "equal".Treating people equal goes against the norms in Quebec.Quebec is becoming what the south was in the States after slavery.The Quebec pure laine values are white,catholic and french speaking.Minister Drainville wants that secular law put into place all religions are banned but catholic symbols.Quebec has not moved forwards and never will unless they assimilate to the rest of the world.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. White and French speaking, yes. Why Catholic though? Quebeckers rejected Catholicism 50 years ago.

      With official state-enforced secularism, abortion, gay rights, and now possibly euthanasia, how can people still associate Quebec with the Catholic religion?

      Delete
    2. http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/drawn+debate+Bill+means+another+project+Charter/8421197/story.html "On secularism, Democratic Institutions Minister Bernard Drainville told reporters the secularism charter will be broader than the initial proposal, which focused on hiding non-Christian religious symbols." Apparently the PQ do."The PQ program calls for a ban non-Christian religious signs in public sector jobs."Seems like Catholicism is the only religion allowed in Quebec.


      Delete
    3. Mazzy, PQ Quebecers are special.

      They are used to behaving like spoiled brats that have never been disciplined by their parents.

      Quebec culture is not a culture of the 21 fst century. Quebec culture and mindset is trapped in stasis re-living long lost battles hundreds of years ago.

      It's not possible to have a logical discussion with people that think historical battles from hundreds of years ago somehow have any relevance today. In the PQ mind however not only do this battles still have relevance, they think they are fighting the same battles now to right "historical wrongs".

      Such thinking is totally foreign to most people in developed societies.

      Look at the license plate. "Je me souviens". That's what we call "baggage" and hangups.

      The PQ mindset is like all of Europe still fighting proxy battles for WWII everyday. No modern person or worldly culture would ever do that.

      It's only the closed minded, uneducated PQ masses that think like that. Unfortunately in Quebec that's 40% of the population. It's also the same 40% of the population that lives on unemployment and is financial drain on everyone else.

      Delete
    4. @cebeuq

      "They are used to behaving like spoiled brats that have never been disciplined by their parents."

      Though I completely agree with you, in the case of spoiled brats however, most of the responsibility lies with the parents. If we're truthful we'll also blame Canada, in this instance, for not properly and adequately disciplining the spoiled brats over the years, cause..that's only fair.

      Delete
  14. Partout où il y a "certains immigrants" il y a des problèmes...Va falloir faire un grand ménage dans notre maison et ça presse.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE FRANKFORTThursday, June 13, 2013 at 12:44:00 PM EDT

      Je ne saurai etre plus d'accord, S.R.
      Regardes du cote de l'Europe; l'Islam est en train de faire apparaitre son influence.
      Ca ne sera pas drole d'ici une dizaine d'annees. Deja, en Belgique, des actes de violences commis contre les "infideles" (lire belges)sont courants. En France des manifs souvent violentes dans certains quartiers de Paris. Ici a Frankfort, il y a certains quartiers "d'immigres" ou la police n'osent pas aller.
      Et on accepte ca??????

      Mais que-dis-je? Je dois etre raciste...

      Delete
    2. Normand

      If you only want White Catholics to immigrate to Quebec I suggest you rethink the French First immigration policy and certain articles of Bill 101 pertaining to education. You'd get a whole army of Irishmen moving here in a heartbeat. Unemployment in Europe is hovering 25-30% for certain demographics. As it stands now, the only people desperate enough to immigrate to Quebec are North Africans and Hatians.

      Delete
    3. "If you only want White Catholics to immigrate to Quebec I suggest you rethink the French First immigration policy and certain articles of Bill 101 pertaining to education"

      I'm a white catholic (non-practicing and lapsed though), and I think they're kicking themselves in the teeth for having allowed me in.

      Delete
    4. "Partout où il y a "certains immigrants" il y a des problèmes...Va falloir faire un grand ménage dans notre maison et ça presse."

      I agree...let's start with you, cause you're an immigrant too, as I've told you a million times before and you're actually one of the "undesirable" you go on about...SO YOU'RE FIRST !! GOOOOOOOOOOOO

      Delete
  15. L'ex-député Vincent Auclair devant la CEIC

    http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/dossiers/commission-charbonneau/201306/13/01-4660769-lex-depute-vincent-auclair-devant-la-ceic.php

    Encore un "liberals" avec une enveloppe remplie de billets...Hmm

    ReplyDelete
  16. And the world watches quebec implode upon itself:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/12/sports/soccer/canadian-soccer-rift-grows-out-of-quebec-federations-turban-ban.html?smid=fb-share&_r=0
    That the PQ is speaking for all of us is a slap in the face. I have to have faith that most quebecers are not the hateful pieces of shit that she makes us out to be. I think the NY Times is pretty much as out there as we can be.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Le pays du KKK n'est pas une référence en la matière...Demandez aux blacks et aux latinos.

      Delete
    2. The KKK? SR it's not 1950 anymore ya know.

      When 0.001% of the population are part of the KKK in 2013 that proves nothing.

      There are 5% of Quebecker that believe in communism. That a far greater percentage of people with mental problems.

      Even 1 anglo makes a trend to a seppie trying to come up with a trend.

      Too bad they didn;t stay in school and learn what statistics are and how to use them responsibly. They could educate the others in your poetry circle.

      You must be the same kind of moron that thinks the stock market went up or down 0.001% for some reason.

      Always looking into the tea leaves because nothing can actually be your own responsability.

      Delete
    3. By stating "aux blacks", it is evident that S.R knows nothing about the country he claims as "le pays du KKK". What else can one expect from "une personne de la terre du FLQ"?

      Delete
  17. Before we start, my disclaimer is that of course we can argue that the OQLF and QSF are independent bodies, neutral to the current government's political orientation.

    If we assume that 'turbangate' and 'pastagate' are the doing of the separatist government, what is the end-game of these events for separatist movement? If the separatists really want Quebec to be independent, surely they need acknowledgment from other sovereign countries. Even if the PQ government manages to eventually unilaterally proclaims Quebec independence, do they expect other countries to recognize them? Right off the bat, they can kiss recognition from Italy and India goodbye.

    Real life example. Look at Taiwan. That 'country' is economically much stronger than Quebec. However, since virtually nobody of importance in the world recognizes it, it can not be de jure a country even though de facto it is.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. bad assumptions troy.

      pastagate originated under the previous federalidst governemnt, and turbangate originates from sikh parents forcing their kids to play football with a turban.

      also, i think you underestimate india and italy. they are more savvy than you think.

      Delete
    2. You make a good point, Troy. I don't think that they are thinking that far ahead, though.

      I believe the PQ government is just trying to generate controversy to provoke an us vs them controversy, which they hope, will give them a majority in the next election, an ADQ type strategy.

      With their recent moves, people may have forgotten how much bumbling they have done since they were elected. We will see.

      Delete
  18. To R.S. - in light of our previous discussion on l'Éloge du Chiac, you might find the following article to be of interest.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks for the interesting article, Yannick. I’m reminded of the worries my parents had when I switched from French grade school to English high school (I grew up going to French school in an area of Quebec where anglophones were the majority). In all humility, in the first semester, it turned out that I was at the top of the class, ahead of those who had only ever attended English school. (Thank you, Hardy Boys books!)

      Anyway, his written French is perfect (the only mistake I spotted was in English: “retarted”) so clearly he can differentiate between Chiac and French, unlike the assertion made by the Quebec student in the film (did you watch the trailer for Part 2?). If it’s a matter of an accent. English has so many accents that it’s almost impossible for anglophones to conceive this to be an issue. It’s only because francophone countries are so overwhelmingly dominated by one country that accent is an issue in French. Pity.

      Delete
  19. And yet another action taken against quebec and it's stupid soccer ruling:
    http://westislandgazette.com/news/story/2013/06/13/ontario-teams-pulling-out-of-lac-st-louis-soccer-tourney-over-turban-ban/
    Sure there will be more to come. Poor kids ostracized by these crazy separatists. Bring on an election soon and/or partition - these people are way out of control with no end in sight of their nastiness and bigotry.

    ReplyDelete
  20. One general comment..while I think the ban on turbans is silly I do hear a lot of politically correct talk here and in the mainstream media.

    There are reasons to be concerned about too much accomodation to immigrants in our country. I find Canada often bends over backwards to be fair to everyone but often at the expense of its own core values. This country was built on christian values and we need to be careful to preserve this. In 50 years we may very well end up with a country in which there are as many Muslims as Christians..that is very worrisome to me. Believe me as un gars states if you go to a Muslim country and try to practise christianity they are not going to tolerate it at all in most cases. Here it seems we bend over backwards telling anyone they can believe whatever they want, they can wear whatever they want and now it seems we cant even publicly show our own religion in public institutions. How many times do I hear people complaining about the word Christam..we need to call it a holiday tree or a holiday train, we cant teach christianisty in schools anymore even though its our founding religion. Now in Quebec they teach some course which talks about all the religions because thats just so politically correct.

    And using the old "let people do whatever they want as long as it doesnt affect me" is a very weak short term argument. It may not affect you now but it could very well affect you in the future.
    I suppose..sigh..that I will now be accused of being racist and intolerant which is so frequently used to avoid having a serious discussion on these issues.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No. This is nonsense. It's a freaking hat. No one cares.

      Of course we can't teach religion in school - there is supposed to be separation of religion and state. A course on world religions is fine, because they are not proselytizing. Teaching Christianity isn't.

      Yes, people can come over here and have freedom of religion, and wear whatever the hell they want while people can't in Saudi Arabia - that's because our country is more free than Saudi Arabia, why would we want to emulate them?

      Far from being founded on "Christian values", our nation was founded on freedom of faith; literally, compromise between catholics and protestants (French and English) lies at the very core of our nation, from the conquest to the signing of the BNA.

      Delete
    2. "I suppose..sigh..that I will now be accused of being racist and intolerant which is so frequently used to avoid having a serious discussion on these issues."

      We may feel like you do, (or not), but here's the difference, it really doesn't matter what our personal opinions about an issue, what we should do, what is our obligation to do, is help someone fight for the preservation of their rights and freedoms. And that's sacred.

      A really good friend of mind once said to me "As a woman, I find hijabs offensive, however, I will march in the streets with ever last muslim woman to ensure that her rights...to wear that hijab, are preserved because that is what a civilized society does, and I belong to a civilized society"....she makes a good point, I must say.

      Delete
    3. hijab et société civilisée?

      Vraiment?Mdr!

      Delete
    4. A civilized society defends people's Rights and Freedoms. True defenders of Democracy will support those who's Freedoms are being trampled on, EVEN when they are not being directly affected by the oppression.

      The real cancer of any democratic society, is the silent majority. (AnecTOTE)

      I really do believe that.

      Delete
  21. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE FRANKFORTThursday, June 13, 2013 at 5:54:00 PM EDT

    Obviously everyone here that opposes Quebec oozes wisdom and smartness. They can do no harm.
    They all individually embody perfection.
    Too bad they also waste their time attacking quebecois. To criticize and attack the quebec nation is racist in itself.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. All of the world must be racist against quebecois, because the world press is mocking pastagate and turbangate here.

      Wow, you're really one smart cookie, un gars.

      Delete
    2. "To criticize and attack the quebec nation is racist in itself."

      It's ironic that this comment comes from someone who repeatedly mocks Quebec and refers to the place as "Quebeckistan."

      Delete
    3. @durham

      i agree. un gars bs de frankfort is one complex character.

      Delete
    4. Quebec is NOT a nation...it is a province inside the COUNTRY OF CANADA!

      Delete
    5. @mazzy mazz

      here's my definition:

      nation: A people who share common customs, origins, history, and frequently language;

      quebeckers fit this. i assume you use a different one. what is it?

      Delete
    6. "here's my definition:"

      Could be but still a province within Canada and not a nation unto itself.

      Sorry, you have such delusions of grandeur.

      Speaking some folk language (Joual) dialect of the French Language really doesn't make you all that special. What really makes you special is your bigotry, hatred of minorities and reliance on the benevolence of others (20 B a year). Must be sad to have to rely on those "maudit anglos", that you hate so much, for your sustenance moving forward.

      Ironic, isn't it?





      Q

      Delete
    7. @westerner

      "Could be but still a province within Canada and not a nation unto itself."

      mate if you don't agree with my definition provide another one.

      don't iroquois form a nation? didn't jews form a nation even before israel was created? there are more nations on your planet then seats at the un, mate. now you know.

      "...really doesn't make you all that special."

      i never said quebeckers form a special nation. it's just a normal nation, mate.

      "What really makes you special is your bigotry, hatred of minorities and reliance on the benevolence of others (20 B a year)."

      classic gratuitous quebec bashing. i'll have to discard this, mate. sorry.

      "Must be sad to have to rely on those "maudit anglos", that you hate so much..."

      i don't hate anyone, mate. that's on major difference between you and me.

      "Ironic, isn't it?"

      what's ironic?



      Delete
    8. Quebec itself is not a nation… however, French-Canadians do form a nation, and franco-Quebecers form a nation within that nation. They are all part of the hundreds of nations that make up Canada, which in turn are part of the thousands of nations that exist in the world.

      Delete
    9. Yep I agree, St-Leonard is a nation too LOL

      Delete
    10. Don't forget about Ford Nation, where people enjoy crack, and Leaf Nation, where the only pictures of the Stanley Cup are in black and white.

      Delete
  22. News on a new offensive:
    http://www.cjad.com/CJADLocalNews/entry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10557128

    ReplyDelete
  23. Just curious..but.....where's Resident Evil??? LOL

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Au PFK en train de s'enfiler un baril avec un 2L de pepsi pour rincer le tout.

      Delete
    2. At least he's not smoking gitaines and mentally masturbating all day long about his culture.

      Delete
    3. Je ne fume pas et je n'ai aucun problème avec ma culture,ce qui ne semble pas être le cas des angryphones sur ce blogue.

      Delete
    4. "At least he's not smoking gitaines and mentally masturbating all day long about his culture."

      cebeuq +10 lol

      Delete
  24. Salut, je suis nouveau sur ce Blog,mais je vous lis souvent.Ce que certaines personnes ne semblent pas comprendrent,c'est que les québecois sont encore plus dure envers leur propre religion.Alors pourquoi porteraient-ils un regard différent sur les autres religions?Pour la majorité des Québecois,la religion se vit chez-soi,non a l'école,au travail,au gouvernement ou devant la justice(hélas humaine).En tant que membre d'un peuple qui fut jadis un des peuples les plus pratiquant au monde(ont faisait meme des lecons au Vatican...imaginez!!)et qui est devenu en moins de 40 ans le peuple le plus laïc du monde d'apres l'ONU,je croit que nous savons collectivement qu'ont ne veut plus de "politique religieuse" dans nos spheres publique.Qui n'est pas d'accord avec ca n'habite pas dans le bon endroit...;)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Le port du turban est pour raisons religieuses, mais le port du turban n'est pas un acte religieux en tant que tel. Ce n'est qu'un acte vestimentaire. C'est pas comme si les flots sikhs étaient en train d'imposer leur religion sur les autres, tout ce qu'ils veulent c'est porter un chapeau.

      Delete
    2. @yannick

      mate your first sentence is a total contradiction: worn for religious motives, but not a religious act. wtf?!?!

      Delete
    3. What part of "don't talk to me" don't you understand?

      Delete
    4. What you state is contradicted by the saying of prayers and the making the sign of the cross before a secular municipal council meeting in Quebec. It is similarly contradicted by there being a large crucifix hanging in the National Assembly, which is meant to represent ALL Quebecers (including a very large number of Quebec atheists) that was placed there by Duplessis in 1936, which hardly makes it a heritage item. Evidently, despite the separation of church and state and the emphasis currently placed on secularism, some Quebecers are more equal than other Quebecers.

      And no, “heritage value” does not cut it. The cross on Mount Royal has heritage value. Religious symbols in government do not. That is a phoney excuse. People who are able to be genuinely objective know that it is ridiculous to argue this in the modern, secular, 21st-century state that Quebec claims to be.

      Delete
  25. "Qui n'est pas d'accord avec ca n'habite pas dans le bon endroit...;)"

    Buddy...as Canadians we have the right to live where we damn well please EVEN if we are not in agreement with whatever you put forth as Laws..AND it is our obligation, as Canadian Citiziens to let you have it when you've totally lost it as human beings. These are children and suddenly they can't get on a soccer field because the lot of you have decided that you're going to play politics and even more show how intolerant you all are...AND you are completely overt and "in your face" with your intolerance . THIS IS WRONG...you can hide behind every bloody excuse you want, but at the end of the day, you're expecting a people to remove something that is sacred to them. Would you remove la loi 101??? No...that Law is so bloody intertwined with who you are as Quebecois...that there is no way in hell anyone could ever expect you to rid yourself of it, n'est ce pas? Yet you expect Sikhs to remove what identies them and is practically part of their DNA?? Do you understand how...it is really the same thing?

    AGAIN...WE ARE ALL IMMIGRANTS HERE...YOU'RE ARE NOT MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANYONE ELSE, NOR IS ANYONE ELSE MORE IMPORTANT THAN YOU..."WE'RE ALL SPECIAL" LOL...Got it?

    Let's respect one another AND let's be accepting....that is what "Civilized" societies do.

    ReplyDelete
  26. The Lane which isn't PureThursday, June 13, 2013 at 10:00:00 PM EDT

    This is a triumph of the Frenchtard!
    Frenchtards tries to show the world what an advanced culture and people they are and in doing so show up their true xenophobic, racist backwater colors.
    Go Jean-Guy Pepper! You'll never be taken seriously now! Ha! Ha!

    ReplyDelete
  27. @thatguy @roger rabbit @complicated @yannick @r.s @lord dorchester @troy @quebecker of tree stump

    you have all expressed a similar view on the current sikh turban affair: you think it was wrong for the quebec soccer federation to ban the thing in games that fall under their watch.

    now let's say a team gets organized in outremont and the players show up to a provincial tournament with this kind of hat on: http://tinyurl.com/kmav6u9

    then another team registers and they fill the pitch with players sporting this: http://tinyurl.com/mosjaru

    would you still think it would be of the utmost racism-based intolerance to ask them to play without their gear?

    before you respond, let me remind you two important bits. first of all a quarter of goals are scored with the head and second of all just take a second to look again at the picture supplied by the editor to illustrate is point above.

    please be honest with yourselves.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thank you for perfectly demonstrating the vacuity of your argument, for all to see.

      Delete
    2. @pure laine

      come on mate. make an effort an write something.

      Delete
  28. @student

    I'm pretty sure the CSA asked the QSF remove the ban on turbans not on those hats that you have posted.

    Do you think that wearing a Patka would give would be unsafe for the player or players? Or give them some sort or advantage?

    Look at this slide show
    http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/interactives/sikh-turban/index.html

    please be honest with yourself

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks for sharing. Information > ignorance.

      Delete
    2. @anonymous

      the big turban as seen in the first picture of the gazette slideshow yes, it could be a hazard if it unfolds on the ground during a melee.

      and i think the randomization of rebounds is not acceptable in league soccer. and that's a undisputable effect that the patka brings in.

      don't you agree anonymous?

      Delete
  29. FROM ED
    Sorry Editor,
    This has to be the most boring adolescent post I have ever seen here.
    You're a Quebec basher / No I'm not/ Yes you are / No I'm not. Translation = Are so / am not/ are too / am not.
    they should be allowed to wear turbans / No they shouldn't / Yes they should / no they shouldn't. Give me a break.
    Cutie is one of the few who makes it clear that she is bashing the Quebec government and not the people of Quebec. This sort of thing puts down all of us just for the sake of jumping in and saying something. It makes ourselves look bad. In the words of Pogo "We have met the enemy and he is us."
    For the apologists like Complicated (God love his hairy little heart) Before the sixties both sides worked well together. there was no animosity, both sides were just trying to make a living, build homes for their families and create housing for men returning from war. Many soldiers returned to find their families already ensconched in a nice little bungalow in Crawford Park, Ville Emard or St. Laurent where entire communities had been built with modern kitchen, bathroom and landscaped.
    French and English worked together on the development of Hydro beginning with Montreal, light heat and power. All service was in English because the English were the ones who went for it right away. A lot of homes in East Montreal were lighting with gas lamps right up to the fifties.
    Francophones always ruled Quebec. My Father who could not speak French used to pick the brains of two of our neighbours; Mr. Pierre Poirier who lived across the street and Emil Garon a Quebec court judge who lived nearby. He would discuss with them who the candidates were and usually voted for which ever they suggested. My father taught me to read using History books and I have been deep into history and politics ever since. He discussed every election and political situation with me right up to the time of his death. having been blessed with a strong memory I'm able to look back fairly and tell it like it was.
    In the sixties there was a terrible turmoil when the Liberal Government of Jean Lesage took the running of the Province from the Roman Catholic Church. He wanted the Catholics to pay taxes to the province instead of giving all to the Church with them bullding schools and controlling welfare. The Church played the freedom of religion card and so they were allowed to keep control of welfare and the curriculum for the schools. The Church tried to make it look like the English protestants had asked for this so the french would have to be the same as us but Lesage was a powerful man and he made it clear this was being done by a government of Francophones. He didn't want the English to get credit for the idea which we didn't want either. Anyway by then most Catholics were tired of the Church's greed with Priests going into their homes demanding money from the poor as well as the wealthy.
    After the sixties the French governors of Quebec and Montreal still worked with the English institutions. English companies did most of the work with companies like Dominion Engineering and Dominion Construction leading the way..
    Nothing they built has fallen or crumbled. The English of Quebec have nothing to apologize for We lived our lives in a decent, honest Christian way and hurt no one else by doing so. Ed

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I remain fascinated by your stories of the 60's, Ed. Nice to read you.

      Delete
  30. Quebec Independence: It's the End of Chicken

    http://youtu.be/b1dG9CbNico

    ReplyDelete
  31. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE FRANKFORTFriday, June 14, 2013 at 6:07:00 AM EDT


    BACK IN 2005 BRITISH COLUMBIA FORBID TURBANS IN SOCCER?

    http://www.lapresse.ca/debats/chroniques/rima-elkouri/201306/13/01-4660845-derive-enturbannee.php

    Religion has no place whatsoever in dictating policy or laws in this country.

    90% of posters here are anti-quebec and quebec haters. YOU are racists. YOU are part of the problem.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Ah, the two faces of Un Gars. Today we have him saying, "90% of posters here are anti-quebec and quebec haters. YOU are racists. YOU are part of the problem" and yet most of the regulars would be more familiar with gems like this,
      "When I say that I can't wait for quebec to leave Canada and that I have started a small movement that would pressure Ottawa to draft a referendum for canadians to kick quebec out is that I want to see quebekistan go down the drain and become the second third world country after Haiti in the northern part of the Americas. First there are high taxes, followed by widespread corruption (that now is a cultural trait of most quebekistanis - to include work under the table), a "nation" wide infrastructure that is almost beyond repair AND beyond means to fix"
      taken from April 23 or
      "I am sad that in this day and age religious based hatred, be it sunni vs shia or muslim vs christian hatred and violence in the middle east or Pakistan or Nigeria or elsewhere. It is pityful that there is also ethnic based hatred and violence in the ex-Yugoslavia, inter-tribal violence in Rwanda, Libya or now Syria, but there is also very much open intolerance between different groups in the RSA black vs whites), Zimbabwe, Afghanistan. Disguised intolerance towards minorities in countries such as Belarus, India, the PRC (against Tibetans)and now -like or not- in Canada, where it so appears and would be confirmed by the enactment of bill 14, in the province (future nation of quebekistan) of quebec."from April 19th.
      I would say that you, Un Gars, have effectively defined yourself as a racist.

      Delete
  32. Letter: Quebec government should stop fanning the flames of intolerance
    THE GAZETTE JUNE 11, 2013

    I am worried — very, very worried. As a proud Quebecer, a Canadian and a Jew, I am distraught at the level of intolerance the Parti Québécois government and the institutions it oversees have displayed recently toward its fellow citizens — all of whom raise their families, pay their taxes and contribute to Quebec society in a myriad of ways.

    To recap, first, the Office québécois de la langue française went after the Italian menu at a popular restaurant, with disastrous results. Then, Citizenship and Democratic Institutions Minister Bernard Drainville made disgraceful comments about the Jewish community in an over-the-top reaction to the papering over of “no parking” signs for a few days a year on a limited number of streets so that Orthodox Jews do not have to violate the prohibition against driving on religious holidays. Mr. Drainville’s reaction was not merely out of proportion to the “crime” in question, it also showed an unwillingness to live and let live as long as no harm is done.

    Then, when the Quebec Soccer Federation disgraced itself with its ban on turbans, Mr. Drainville and his fellow ministers remained shamefully silent. Really, what is the harm in papering over a few “no parking” signs? What is the harm in allowing Sikh boys, teenagers and young men to play on soccer fields wearing their turbans?

    First it was the Italians, then the Jews, then the Sikhs. Who is next, I wonder, on the Quebec ethnic hit parade?

    I am sure Mr. Drainville is well versed in Quebec history. But does he know that for more than two centuries, the Jewish community has contributed immeasurably to diverse fields of endeavour right here in Quebec, from health care to science to social justice, from business and academia to literature and the arts? Does he know that, regardless of our individual levels of religious observance, we give in such large measure precisely because our sacred Jewish texts, values and traditions mandate us to do so? The commitment to do our part to repair the world is central to Judaism. Therefore, many of us view religion as a force for good in the world rather than the source of all evil. And yet, a significant proportion of Quebec’s intellectual, media and political classes sneer at us for wearing skullcaps on our heads and eating kosher food.

    I am worried, very, very worried, about the proposed Charter of Quebec values. I took a look at the poll on religious accommodation commissioned by the government in March 2013. One of the questions asked (my translation): “On a scale of 1 to 10, how much of a problem is religious accommodation?” The question as posed assumes a priori that religious accommodation is a problem that requires heavy-handed state intervention. I suspect that the results would have been completely different had the question been: “On a scale of 1 to 10, how much of a problem is it that the ER doctor who saved your life wore a kippah on his head while administering CPR?” That the government would use a biased survey with leading questions to manufacture an urgent need to protect Quebecers from public displays of religious symbols shows how cynical and manipulative Quebec politics has become.

    As Minister of Quebec Citizenship, Mr. Drainville’s job is not to divide us, but to unite us. By exaggerating the differences between ethnic minorities and the “secular” majority, he is sowing the seeds of mistrust, suspicion and hatred — dangerous emotions that have fuelled centuries of conflict all over the world. I urge him to stop fanning the flames of intolerance. Concentrate, instead, on what we all share in common: a desire to care for our families and our communities and to build a strong and vibrant society for the benefit of all Quebecers.

    Hena Kon
    Montreal

    ReplyDelete
  33. (http://nodogsoranglophones.blogspot.com/2013/06/pq-peladeau-holding-back-nhl-franchise.html?showComment=1371079827975#c2847280214987916218)

    Cutie003 really wanted me to answer her comments/questions.

    Cutie003, you would like me to admit that there is no middle ground. If you read my last few comments, it is more or less what I am saying.

    Following my comment about being lead by people who don't give a damn, Yannick and Aski came up with a simplistic and naive solution : we should get along and find a middle ground. My "what middle gound" question was rethorical.

    "Why keep asking for more and more from Canada when there is really nothing that will satisfy you except independence?"

    You see Québec as a single unit, so you see Québec as fighting for independence and asking to renew federalism at the same time, which seems illogic.

    The reality is more like this : about one third want things to stay the same, about one third want to renew federalism and about one third want independence. The ones fighting to renew federalism are not the same as those who want independence. And when independence seems out of reach, independentists, seeing renewal of federalism as a fall back position, tend to side with the ones who want to renew federalism.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "about one third want things to stay the same, about one third want to renew federalism and about one third want independence. The ones fighting to renew federalism are not the same as those who want independence."

      Yeah...and that sore bunch who want independence...(sorry to say)...are a damn nasty bunch who can't see the forest for the trees and worst of all, are burning down the entire forest....savvy?? You'd better find a middle ground fast buddy, once you've succeeded in burning the entire forest there will be nowhere to run and hide.

      Delete
    2. He's right Michele: You are ruining the whole country and quebec in your quest for independence plus pushing us to things that we do not want like confrontations and financial ruin for all of us. We are ALL dependent on a social and monetary system that is contributed to by 34M people and would take such a beating if quebec claimed independence that it would never recover in any of our lifetimes and the "black hole", that Charest called it, would mean disaster for all of us no matter what your crazy politicians (that are very rich on your dime by the way) lead you to believe. We are all dependent on each other throughout Canada for our standard of living and our way of life - our hospitals, our pension plans, our EI benefits, thousands of things are intertwined and not that easily discernible one from the other. You separatists seem to think that independence will make you more powerful in the world but with such a small population in the middle of much more powerful countries like Canada and the US, your decisions will be not be given a second thought in any way, shape or form. The two countries will carry on with what they see as the best way to go and your politicians will endlessly blame everyone else for their misery as they do now. What we won't have is the money to go it alone on anything - we will be at the mercy of all of North America and will stand out as a nothing little country with nothing to offer anyone else. You're all very foolish is you do not see the pitfalls of what you are proposing. It's sad that nothing but financial ruin is your "middle ground".

      Delete
    3. Cutie003,

      Just to give credit where credit is due, AnecTOTE is a she and it is Michel is not Michele. Just to make sure that you get the gender right.

      Delete
    4. @ AnecTote @ Cutie003

      Although Michel is often apt to distort facts and present manipulated theories in order to support his goal of separation, I have to agree with his analysis on the point that 1/3 of Quebeckers are separatists, 1/3 of Quebeckers are federalists, and 1/3 of Quebeckers want renewed federalism. That breakdown actually works out well for people who believe in Canada.

      Just remember that Michel is one of the pur and durs. There is nothing that you will write or say that will change his opinion, just like there is nothing that someone will ever say to Jacques Parizeau to make him become federalist.

      It is not uncommon for some people to want to form a nation because they have a language or religion in common.

      Delete
    5. @Roger Rabbit - It is not uncommon for some people to want to form a nation because they have a language or religion in common.
      When people read history and even pick up today's paper, they see from the turmoil all over the world, that these problems are not resolved without dire consequences which is what we keep trying to point out to these separatists. Even if 70% of the quebec population wanted independence, there would still be big problems with 30% - they seem to think all this will go off without a hitch and we're warning that this will not be the case. The fact that 40% want to push an agenda that the other 60% is not interested in is going to lead to big trouble and everyone should be well aware of this. We are not changing school districts here - this is a major, critical battle and not to be taken lightly even though the PQ politicians preach that BS over and over. The population have a right to know and we all have a duty to say there are major, major problems with trying to pull a country apart. This isn't for the faint of heart and the consequences are huge.

      Delete
    6. @Cutie003
      Fair enough that you want to stand up for what you believe in. I am not saying that I believe that it is disireable that Quebec be an independant French nation as opposed to being a part of a larger entity where compromise is necessary. I personally believe that in life we should all learn to put a little water in our wine. Canada and an independant Quebec are thus totally different concepts.

      I don't think a convinced separatist will change his mind because of the economic hardship that a new nation would entail, whether he accepts or doesn't accept that there will be the aforementioned hardship.

      If I was to be generous, I would say it is an emotional thing.

      So, I don't know that Quebec would be a successful economic or social entity, if it was independant - in fact, I don't belief it would be. It's just that I think that some people cannot be swayed in some things in life.

      However, I do respect your right to bring up these issues and I don't disagree with them.

      Delete
  34. Turban au soccer - La fausse tolérance du Canada anglais

    http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/canada/380764/la-fausse-tolerance-du-canada-anglais

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  35. Ça y est...Vous avez gagné!

    http://tinyurl.com/nxamk6f

    ReplyDelete
  36. And of course the separatist ledevoir is a really good source of truth and tolerance. Always someone else that is at fault in the minds of these racists. Too bad they can't just build a huge cocoon around the part of quebec that wants out of Canada and leave the rest of us to hell alone. We have to partition this place and let them go - the no "middle ground" from Michele proves what we've known all along - there is no other solution.

    ReplyDelete
  37. FROM ED

    From Hena Kon "As Minister of Quebec Citizenship, Mr. Drainville’s job is not to divide us, but to unite us. By exaggerating the differences between ethnic minorities and the “secular” majority, he is sowing the seeds of mistrust, suspicion and hatred — dangerous emotions that have fuelled centuries of conflict all over the world. I urge him to stop fanning the flames of intolerance. Concentrate, instead, on what we all share in common: a desire to care for our families and our communities and to build a strong and vibrant society for the benefit of all Quebecers."

    Hena Kon
    R.S. I read with interest the naive letter of Hena Kon and realize there are so many Anglos out there that still don't get it. Drainville's job
    is not to unite us. If the PQ wanted that they would have given the job to the snake oil salesman Lisee, wh at least can pretend some charm. Drainville is doing exactly what he was put in the position to do. Urging him to do anything is like asking a Komodo Dragon to smile. Her info is right on but it's the kind of thing that needs to get to the Francophones. Most of us Anglos know this Ed

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    Replies
    1. Mr. Brown,

      Urging him to do anything is like asking a Komodo Dragon to smile.

      Once again, a big LOL for your witty comment.

      Delete
  38. FIFA has spoken.
    In a statement just issued FIFA has come out officially in favour of the turban. No equivocation.
    This was confirmed in a letter to the Canadian Soccer Association today.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Great news! Seems like world opinion, except for Quebec, is on one side.

      Delete
  39. Here is the English text of the Email to the CSA from fFIFA
    BY EMAIL
    13 June 2013
    Presidents and Executive Directors
    Provincial/Territorial Soccer Associations

    Dear Presidents and Executive Directors,
    In accordance with the directive of the Canadian Soccer Association as outlined in its 11
    April 2013 memo permitting the wearing of turbans/patkas/keski (male head covers), we wish to inform you that the International Football Association Board (IFAB) and FIFA have authorized the wearing of male head covers in all areas and on all levels of the Canadian football community.

    The following conditions must be met:
    Be of the same colour as the jersey
    Be in keeping with the professional appearance of the player’s equipment
    Not be attached to the jersey
    Not pose any danger to the player wearing it or any other player

    For clarity, please find examples of the IFAB permitted head covers enclosed.
    Thank you for your implementation of this policy and your assistance in ensuring the long term growth and development of the sport of soccer in Canada.

    Warm regards,

    Peter Montopoli
    General Secretary

    ReplyDelete
  40. From CTV News Montreal:

    The international body that oversees the rules of soccer says Quebec's Soccer Federation is in the wrong and must allow turbans on the soccer field.

    In a statement published on Friday, FIFA said that it altered international rules in October 2012 to permit turbans until further notice, as long as certain conditions are met.

    FIFA's regulatory body, the International Football Association Board is analyzing the use of turbans in soccer games, and that board will discuss the subject again in October 2013, making a permanent decision in March 2014.

    Meanwhile the CSA has notified the Quebec Soccer Federation of FIFA's rules. The CSA also made public a letter sent to the Quebec Soccer Federation in April saying that FIFA's rules permitted turbans.

    The Quebec Soccer Federation reacted with a written statement, saying it "accepted with enthusiasm and relief the clarifications made by FIFA."

    FIFA has now made it clear that its regulations were changed seven months before the Quebec's soccer organization banned turbans, a decision which QSF claims it was unaware of, despite repeated letters from the CSA informing all provincial soccer associations of the decision.

    Regardless, the QSF said it was only waiting "for a clear statement from FIFA on the subject, something we had never received until this moment. The QSF will now, without any delay, analyze FIFA's position."

    The QSF says it will make no further comment until holding a news conference at 10 a.m. Saturday.

    The World Sikh Organization is very happy with the decision, and expressed its pleasure in a written statement.

    "This announcement is certainly good news. It is now absolutely clear that there should be no restriction on the wearing of the turban by Sikh players," said Prem Singh Vinning.

    FIFA's conditions for turban use
    The head cover must:
    be of the same colour as the jersey
    be in keeping with the professional appearance of the player’s equipment
    not be attached to the jersey
    not pose any danger to the player wearing it or any other player (e.g. opening/closing mechanism around neck)

    HIstory of the dispute
    On June 1, 2013, the Quebec Soccer Federation announced it would continue to prohibit soccer players in Quebec from wearing turbans, saying its decision was in line with FIFA regulations.

    The Canada Soccer Association immediately chastised the QSF for its decision and said it was incorrect.

    The Director-General of the QSF, Brigitte Frot, then said that turbans were dangerous and the prohibition would hold, saying that children who wanted to wear turbans "can play in their backyards but not in official [games] or with a referee."

    However when pressed, no member of the QSF managed to explain exactly what danger could be posed by the cloth headcovering.

    One week after the QSF made its decision, the national body responsible for soccer in Canada, the CSA, suspended the QSF for violating FIFA regulations. That meant Quebec players were no longer eligible to participate in national or international tournaments, and no sanctioned events could take place in Quebec.

    The ramifications of that decision had an immediate effect, with two dozen Ontario teams forced to pull out of a tournament taking place in the West Island this weekend.

    The suspension inflamed tensions in Quebec, with Premier Pauline Marois claiming, incorrectly, that the QSF was not subject to the regulations imposed by the CSA.

    On June 11 the QSF held an emergency meeting to discuss the suspension and the turban ban, emerging to say they were working toward a solution and hoped to create a dialog with their national counterparts, but would only issue a statement about what they had decided ten days later.

    CTV Montreal
    Published Friday, June 14, 2013 9:56AMEDT
    Last Updated Friday, June 14, 2013 11:19AMEDT

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Will the QSF stand alone against the world now that they can no longer hide behind the ludicrous notion that the Fifa rules don't forbid forbidding turbans?

      Delete
    2. No, I think they will finally back down. It says in the article that: "The Quebec Soccer Federation reacted with a written statement, saying it 'accepted with enthusiasm and relief the clarifications made by FIFA.'"

      I just want this whole thing to be over with.

      The thing is I don't know if the Sikh children will be accepted by other players on their team or the parents of other children.

      All this controversy for nothing. It's sad.

      Delete
  41. Good the turban issue is resolved. Their is another problem. Pauline Marois and Bernard Drainville are passing legislation to have an election on religious holidays.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2013/06/07/quebec-national-assembly-marois-fixed-election-jewish-rosh-hashanah.html
    "There's more than 100 religious holidays." Drainville countered. "You cannot start saying we're going to allow for the postponing of the vote according to one religion." Bernard, their are more than 300 days in a years. Don't tell me that the Directeur-Generales can't chose a day that will make everybody happy.
    I know Pauline isn't a religious but many christian want to celebrate Christmas or Easter. Can't we chose a fair day.
    "If practising Catholics say we do not want municipal elections to be held on a Sunday because Sunday is the day of the Lord, and for us it's a sacred day, will the Liberals say, 'Ok, we're going to move from a Sunday to another day?'" he asked. I hope this minister isn't seriously planning an election on Sunday. Way to boost the province low participation rate, Drainville.

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  42. FROM ED
    "The reality is more like this : about one third want things to stay the same, about one third want to renew federalism and about one third want independence.'

    In other words one third refuse to think. One third are smart and one third are idiots. Michele, I always thought you were smarter than the other two that promote apocalypse, but if you agree with them I won't waste my time reading your posts. let me know please. Ed

    ReplyDelete