Wednesday, November 28, 2012

Quebec Propagandists Get a Dose of Reality

Separatist lies meant to confuse Quebecers
In the dizzying battle of facts, statistics and disinformation, Quebec separatists are making a valiant attempt to confuse Quebecers into believing what clearly is not true, that is, the fantasy that Quebec contributes more to Canada than it gets out.

It is an interesting propaganda battle, led by its champion confusionist, Jean-François Lisée, a man who has made a career out of trying to convince Quebecers that they have no debt problem, that their finances are in order and would be in even better shape, should Quebec achieve independence.

But convincing Quebecers of this has been an uphill slog, partly because what these confusionists are selling is not true, but mostly because the facts and figures bandied about, are hard to understand, especially by a public that is largely challenged when it comes to understanding the complicated details of GDP, Money supply, debt versus GDP, deficit spending, transfer payments, etc.etc.

Considering that most Canadians can't balance their chequebooks and that about one-third of us are counting on a lotto jackpot or big inheritance as part of the long-term plan for financial success, it's no wonder that we have a problem with these complicated financial concepts.

And so the issue of whether Quebec gets a good or bad financial deal out of Canada seems to boil down to a simple argument, which is of course the famous 'equalization payment," an annual cash transfer from Ottawa to Quebec, which stands today  at almost $8 billion.

Let me first illustrate how two different sides can view the same situation, both perfectly valid. 


Credit to Michel Patrice; Equalization payment per capita and population
Both these graphs are statistically valid, but offer different views of the equalization payment, the first one represents the argument that federalists like to use, while the second, more sophisticated view, is one that paints Quebec in a better light.

Such is the stuff that propaganda wars are about.

For the last couple of years, federalists have been successfully lording the equalization payment over the heads of Quebecers as proof that Quebec gets more out of Canada than it puts in.

Simple and direct, it may not tell the whole story but it's something the public can understand and as long as federalists keep hammering home the idea that Quebec is a loser province that must take charity from the rest of the provinces, the issue is largely settled and is likely the chief reason sovereignty support has sunk to historic lows.

Here's a cartoon by YGRECK, Quebec's best editorial cartoonist, that reminds us how entrenched this feeling of beholden to Canada is in the Quebec psyche.

The Maple Leaf to remain at the National Assembly --- "This one, anyways!"

Recently, separatists have made a valiant effort to disparage the idea of Quebec as a have-not province by characterizing the equalization payment as irrelevant, considering that Quebec sends more taxes to Ottawa than it receives back, including the equalization payment.

It's an argument that is gaining traction among sovereigntists because it is simple enough that those inclined to do so, can latch onto the concept.

It has become a favourite talking point of Pauline Marois, the fact that Quebec sends a surplus of taxes to Ottawa and so is forced to pay for the oil sands development in Alberta, F-35 warplanes, shipbuilding programs outside Quebec, etc. etc., expenditures that she contends Quebecers don't need, want or benefit from.

But finally, someone has attacked this argument and has produced a decent study debunking this myth.

In an article entitled Financially, Quebec depends more and more on Ottawa, written by Editor in Chief of the French language magazine "Les Affaires, Jean-Paul Gagné puts paid to Pauline's fantasy that Quebec is shortchanged,

Here are a few extracts, but you can read the whole fascinating article, which goes into some detail,  HERE{Fr}
"Pauline Marois tells Quebecers that Ottawa draws $50 billion per year out of the pockets of Quebecers and Quebec would be much better off if it kept the money. Don't believe these claims because they are false. According to the Economic Accounts Income and Expenditure Quebec Edition 2011 (Table 5.2, pp. 84-85), published by the Institut de la statistique du Québec, in 2010, Ottawa collected  $40 billion from Quebec. This is 10 billion less than the figure spread as truth by the separatists to advance their cause. And as no one contradicted the number,  many probably believe they are telling the truth...." 

To darken the portrait, the separatists argue that Ottawa uses "our money" to subsidize oil sands, subsidize Ontario's auto industry, etc.. Is it necessary to recall that the taxes paid by these industries and their employees allow Ottawa to fund its programs, such as equalization, which Québec is a major beneficiary.... 


"... separatists are careful to ignore programs administered by Ottawa for the benefit of all Canadians, and especially ignore the fact that individuals from Quebec, companies, the government and through various federal agencies have received payments in 2010 totalling $58 billion or $18 billion more than it sent to Ottawa."
 There it is, a clear and concise statement from someone who seems to know what he is talking about, the fact that Quebec pulls out a lot more from Canada than it puts in, something we all believed intuitively.


And so, for every dollar Quebec sends to Ottawa it receives back $1.45
  
Readers are always asking, "What can I do to counter sovereigntist propaganda?"
Spread the word.   
Whenever discussing Quebec, remind others about this disparity.

Things go viral quickly and a message such as this, is powerful and simple, something easily remembered. 

Again, For every dollar Quebec sends to Ottawa, it receives back  $1.45  

Spread the word!

130 comments:

  1. Way back when I started my CEGEP studies, I took two economics courses that were required in the Commerce program. The first lesson in both courses about unlimited wants being constrained by limited resources.

    Since those days back in the mid-1970s, I have lived many years of life and experiences. I have come up with three fundamental human wants:

    1. People see what they WANT to see;
    2. People hear what they WANT to hear; and
    3. People believe what they WANT to believe.

    There it is, the simplest of wants beyond the absolute need for food, water and shelter.

    Very recently, Yasser Arafat's body was exhumed eight years after his death because there are those who WANT to believe Israeli spy agents poisoned him. If I recall correctly, an autopsy was done upon his death, but I imagine there are enough people who WANT to believe this conspiracy theory. I'll be surprised if the autopsy shows any poison, and even if so, who's to say Israel did it? I'm sure he had his detractors snapping at his heels to take over and stuff the loot in their pockets instead.

    In 1981, a full 18 years after JFK's assassination, Lee Harvey Oswald's body was exhumed from its grave as there were conspiracy theorists who were convinced it was not Oswald's body in that grave. The autopsy clearly proved that it was indeed the body of Oswald laying in that grave.

    Getting a bit off topic, I do believe the assassination of President Kennedy was a conspiracy, not simply because of all the conspiracy theories, but because the Warren Commission that followed, when information and evidence was requested, it either mysteriously disappeared, or was not available due to being classified. Kennedy's brain has been deemed classified.

    Those are just examples. To keep this brief, the fact there is a lot of classified information that cannot be disclosed until approximately 2038, a full 75 years after the assassination. There was testimony by 51 witnesses they heard shots fired from a grassy knoll near the motorcade, but the witnesses were told they're wrong (or I and many believe this was a cover-up).

    Maybe I believe in the conspiracy theory because I WANT to, but considering how much time a plenitude of evidence is being classified for a full 75 years very suspiciously sounds like there is a cover-up and this amount of time will spare the perpetrators and their immediate families the time to live out their lives and therefore not face the shame as to what really happened. Again, I choose to believe this due to the length of the cover-up.

    I would like to think that the current president could overturn the evidence and get it solved once and for all, and if anyone is alive who may have been involved, they should be brought to justice.

    In Quebec, things work a lot more simply, so the assassins of Pierre Laporte are long free and heinous killers like Karla Homolka could hide in Quebec, but would be publicly humiliated in Ontario.

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    1. Yes Mr. Sauga and the PQ treat those murderers like royalty and break out into applause whenever they appear any where. Karla Homolka was never in the limelight in Quebec and, for some strange reason, the press didn't bother with her. Strange place we live in. They probably would have tarred and feathered her in Ontario but off she went to live on some island down south with a degree in psychology that she obtained during her stint in prison. We sure are good to our murderers in this country but especially here in quebec.

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  2. Thank you for this post, editor, it was very informative.

    One knows "intuitively" that Quebec receives more than it gives to confederation, but it's important to have correct figures to point out. Arguments based on intuition inevitably end up being appeals to emotions.

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  3. FROM ED BROWN
    Editor, I have sent a letter to the Montreal Gazette stating the facts tht you have enlightened us with. If several others do the same they will make a special section for them which usually garners wider attention. I imagine Pauline will not invite Mr.Gagne to dinner in her palace.
    Something just entered my mind as I write this. We are referring to the Premier as Pauline rather than the premier. Odly enough it all sounds perfectly natural and reminds me of something Rene Levesque said of the English press. he said, "They don't even refer to us as the Government, they call us the Parti Quebecois for God's sake. We did get elected." I wonder how others feel about this. Ed

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    1. I guess I've always done that, Ed, with any PQ government. To me, they don't deserve my respect, elected or not. The big P is no different, even if she is the first woman premiere in quebec.

      Delete
    2. Vos idoles passent à la télé cutie:

      Beauchamp et Tomassi sous la loupe de la Commission:

      http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/dossiers/commission-charbonneau/201211/27/01-4598365-beauchamp-et-tomassi-sous-la-loupe-de-la-commission.php

      Delete
    3. I always told our little resident troll to mind his arrogance...as with the Charbonneau commission it really is wisest that the seppies remain mum until it's completely over:

      http://www.montrealgazette.com/business/Exclusive+357c+club+Charbonneau+spotlight+Premier/7621702/story.html

      I'm not going to stick up for any corrupt Liberals, but at the same time, I'll never allow ANY separatist to play the morality card as it is almost squarely their fault that corruption in Quebec got to this level...

      ...and now the chickens are coming home to roost.

      Delete
    4. Pourquoi ce sont toujours les séparatistes qui exigent les enquêtes publiques?
      Gomery,Charbonneau,etc.

      Delete
  4. FROM ED BROWN
    Mr.Sauga, I firmly believe that Kennedy was killed by Texans who wanted Johnson as president. Jack Ruby was sent to hush Oswald before he could talk.
    The sloppy way it was done i.e. not getting Oswald
    out of town, letting him get caught, etc has Texas written all over it. Ed

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    1. Speaking of JFK conspiracy "theories", have you gents heard this one?

      JFK vs. The Federal Reserve

      On June 4, 1963, a virtually unknown Presidential decree, Executive Order 11110, was signed with the authority to basically strip the Federal Reserve Bank of its power to loan money to the United States Federal Government at interest. With the stroke of a pen, President Kennedy declared that the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank would soon be out of business.....It appears obvious that President Kennedy knew the Federal Reserve Notes being used as the purported legal currency were contrary to the Constitution of the United States of America.


      As the story goes, he was assasinated before he could sign a law that would have replaced the current (constitutionally conterfit) fiat with notes backed by the silver in the US treasury.

      JFK vs. The Federal Reserve - Dr. Paul could enact this the first day in office

      DD

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    2. Most of my life I always tended to dismiss conspiracy theories precisely because of the three observations that Sauga made..people in the end even when you give them solid facts tend to still distort the truth to fit what they believe and what they were told as they grew up. Its pretty hard to change many peoples views on things when they have been indoctrinated with a certain belief system since they were young. To challenge this belief system is quite scary to many people.

      I have a friend who for years was always telling me about all sorts of conspiracy theories..about JFK, about WW2 and even 9/11. I scoffed at him for the most part..especially the 911 theories as its very hard to imagine a government being able to pull off such a heinous act without anybody squealing and again just in terrms of the execution and morality aspect. However after further prodding I have looked at a wealth of information now available via the internet. In the past before the internet we were all pretty much getting our news from the same sources which made it very easy to spread propoganda if one wanted. With the internet there are countless alternative sources of news now..some of them questionable but many of them quite good and in my opinion often closer to the truth than the mainstream media. Back to my main point..I now believe there is a significant chance that the official 911 story is wrong. I am from a scientific background and there is an organization comprised of thousands of engineers and architects who have looked at the evidence from a scientific point of view and have concluded that the official story on what brought the three buildings down in NYC makes no sense. I wont get into details but its very hard to argue with the facts they have brought up. The official report from the government is full of holes. But they are not pointing fingers at any group/government agency in particular but that the plane crashing into the building was not enough to bring down three buildings at freefall speed. How many people even knew that a third building fell..that surprised me the most.

      Most people here will as I did not that many years ago think I am a nutcase for bringing this up. But it showed me how easily most people in society can be brainwashed via the standard media outlets. And even afterwards when presented with real scientific evidence and facts people will still refuse to change their mind because on an emotional level its just too scary to even contemplate. If you accept that the 911 story is false then your whole world comes crashing down..the belief system in your government gets demolished.

      So even with the facts on how much money Quebec gets as the editor presents is based on a thorough study there will be countless seperatists who immediately will dismiss it without looking further. There will be a smaller group who will go out of their ways to poke holes in the notion that we are getting 18 billion per year more by being in Canada. And an even fewer number may actually sit down with a more open mind and be convinced that this is in fact true.

      But as Sauga says in most cases people will believe essentially what they want to believe..

      Delete
    3. "the plane crashing into the building was not enough to bring down three buildings at freefall speed". I have no problem with the physics. The planes loaded with fuel provided the fire which weakened the structure allowing the floors above the impact point to collapse downward. Remember F=ma from physics? Where F=force in Newtons, m =mass in kilograms and a=acceleration, in this case acceleration due to gravity. Once the collapse started, with every floor it hit on its downward path it picked up more mass and thus more force, while the acceleration due to gravity at 9.8m/s/s remains constant. So, to me, the surprise would be if it didn't approach freefall speed as the force is increasing arithmetically.

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    4. Complicated, your thoughts on 9/11 indisputably demonstrates that you really are nuts.

      Delete
    5. Diogenes - The fire never burned anywhere near hot enough to melt the beams or even cause the beams to buckle. The only way the buildings could fall at freefall speed is if there was no force under each floor pushing back. Think about all the energy needed to crush each floor..all the concrete..that would surely slow down the pancake effect. The only explanation of the near freefall speed is if explosives were used as in a controlled demolition. AS well the third building was only hit by some debris from the other tower and no serious fires were reported. Note that raging infernos have occurred in other office fires around the world and buildings have never collapsed. The plane did not take out enough beams to compromise the structural integrity and the fires did not burn anywhere hot enough.
      How do you also explain that the most heavily guarded city and building in the world was unable to intercept a passenger jet before it slammed into the pentagon? Think about that one..there are air force bases all around washington dc..the passenger plane was on the radar for a long time heading towards washington..is it plausible that the military was incapable of reacting. Why is there no video released of the plane hitting the pentagon..how could a passenger plane fly such an incredibly difficult flight path by poorly trained pilots..there are too many things that make absolutely no sense.
      John - Dont worry..I expect many people to think I am nuts. I would have said the same thing 4-5 years ago but the evidence is just so strong that the official story is false. Check out architects and engineers for truth on the internet.

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    6. Dunno Complicated, I don't see any evidence of a science background in what you're saying. You think several the plane impact plus several thousand gallons of jet fuel wouldn't do enough damage to collapse a floor? you think some amateurs flying a plane into the side of a building at 500 mph are going to be able to hit the exact floor where the explosives are planted? I could go on but the expression "casting pearls before swine" comes to mind. You're right: I think you're nuts.

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    7. Almost all the jet fuel was consumed in the intial explosion..the fire ball. Afterwards if you look at the thick black smoke this suggest an oxygen starved fire..not a hot fire. Go look at the video of the highrise in spain and look at how much more intense the flames were. It burnt for much longer and the building never collapsed. I suggest you go to the site http://ae911truth.org/en/evidence.html
      and check out the videos and other evidence. These are not a bunch of quacks..1500 architects engineers physicists who say that the official story is impossible.
      Demolition experts have looked at the video and say that its a controlled demolition. There would have had to have been explosive put on each floor with exact timing to create a freefall effect. There were many reports of explosions even before the building collapsed..evidence of thermite which is a high tech explosive..a very hot lava fire burning for weeks after the collapse which again supports thermite. Anyway there is a lot of information on this web site..look at it with an open mind.
      I agree that everyones first reaction is your nuts..I would have said exactly the same thing you are saying. But the evidence is overwhelming.

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  5. I still don't get it personally.

    The Editor's post is loaded with proof.

    The QMI Agency has pretty much sounded off with the exact same facts.

    In effect, it couldn't be more clear - Quebec is Canada's gold-digging wife...and she'd be utterly helpless without her deep-pocketed man.

    Yet, you'll still have some stubborn, knuckle-draggers who insist, against every immutable law of economics, that Quebec is getting screwed by Canada and would be better off without its "oppressive master."

    I don't get it.

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  6. I am most flattered to see my graph in your post and I appreciate to see it described as "more sophisticated". Thank you.

    I would like to point out that I acknowledge that Québec receives more money from Ottawa than it sends to Ottawa. And so do, I believe, most independentists.

    "federalists keep hammering home the idea that Quebec is a loser province that must take charity from the rest of the provinces"

    This reminds me of a recent discussion of ours about federalists being like a man who keeps reminding a woman that he pays for everything.

    http://nodogsoranglophones.blogspot.ca/2012/11/french-versus-english-volume-67.html?showComment=1353077701746#c5106931691798691532

    Due to the publication of a new post, the discussion unfortunately fell short.

    (I don't have time to go throught her book today, but urbanist Jane Jacobs has interesting thoughts on equalization in Cities and the Wealth of Nations. In my view, a must read.)

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  7. Perhaps one of our francophone friends should forward this on to LaPresse for publication also as Ed did with the Gazette. IF may be interested also - lol

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  8. Thanks Editor and to contributors for an excellent article and tables. Equalization does not include many other economic benefits which Quebec gains from being within Canada, but at least this article clarifies the benefit in regard to this important fiscal aspect of federalism.

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  9. Stéphane Gobeil a publié un livre récemment intitulé Un gouvernement de trop. Il a épluché l'année 2010 du livre des crédits du Canada, soit les dépenses réelles effectuées par le fédéral. Je cite Jean-François Lisée :

    « l’auteur a retranché dans son calcul, comme il se doit, tout ce que le Canada fait et qui ne nous concerne pas (et dont nous finançons le cinquième) ; tout ce que le Canada fait en dédoublant nos propres activités ; tout ce que le Canada fait en Cadillac et que nous faisons ou pouvons faire en coupé sport.

    Les sommes économisées par un futur Québec souverain sont proprement colossales.

    Et le résultat est net : lorsqu’on a tout compté et tout décompté, un Québec souverain économiserait 2 milliards par an. C’est le coût du fédéralisme. Et cela inclut, évidemment, la péréquation. (Autrement dit, puisque le Québec reçoit 8 milliards de péréquation, il économiserait 10 milliards par an en se retirant de la fédération.) »

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    1. Plus besoin de payer pour les différents liens avec les clowns britanniques?

      Delete
    2. Wow - exactly my point...you give tunnel-vision seppies a serving of rock-solid indisputable facts and still...

      ...because the supreme overlord of Quebeconomics, Jean-François Lisée doesn't believe the facts, it makes them untrue.

      Delete
    3. @ Y.L.

      So Gobeil went through the books line by line and found billions of savings. Great. You and I could also find lots of savings if we did the same exercise. Unfortunately, not much of this is likely to be very realistic because politically these savings would not be possible to achieve.

      As that graphic representation of the Quebec budget showed last week, half of spending is on salaries. So to save your $10B, you would have to make thousands of job cuts in the public sector. That is just not going to happen, especially with a PQ government.

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    4. Chers YL et SR,
      En suivant votre logique, et celle de JF Lisee, s.v.p. vous voyez tres clairement que le Quebec serait $2 000 000 000 plus riche anuellement en quittant le Canada.
      Mais qu'attendez-vous? $2 000 000 000 pour 8 000 000 de quebecois c'est pres de $125 par quebecois-es. Ma question: que faites-vous tous dans le Canada. C'est pas rentable. Etes-vous fous?

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    5. Oh.... N'oubliez pas votre part (25%) de la dette canadienne - $150 000 000 000 - en nous quittant:)

      Delete
  10. Typical seppies - want to use everything that Canada has to offer but pay for nothing, like railroads, highways, airports, National Defence, central banking system, post office services, etc. Sucks.

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  11. $1.45 you say. Guess they will have to keep the Flag in the assembly, for awhile. Always interesting to see some idiot try and rationalize facts down the drain. I wouldn't put too much stock in JF Lisee's point of view...David has made him look like an idiot many times on his website (Antagoniste I think).

    We will keep working in the the west so Pauline can continue to afford the social programs. :)

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  12. So I made a quick calculation of what an independent Quebec's finances would look like by combining the table mentioned in Les Affaires with the Quebec budget. If my logic (and math) are correct, then I get a budget deficit of 11.6% of GDP for 2010. That was higher than any country in the OECD except Ireland. Couple that with the 95% debt ratio and things look very Greece-y.

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  13. See seppies? There really is a Santa Claus.

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  14. “Quebec Propagandists Get a Dose of Reality “

    “Separatist lies meant to confuse Quebecers”

    It’s not just going on in Kebec. Its happening all over the country.

    From the taking of farm land in the 1940”s (The tragedy of Quebec) to the removal of the Red Ensign in Quebec City in 1950, to the removal of the Red Ensign in Ottawa in 1965 to the enforcement of bilingualism in Ottawa in the late 60’s, 70’s…to the nightmare that Canada is now living with (the charter and everything connected to it) its all going as planned folks. Lies, deceit, spin…decades of it. People really have no idea what this man Trudeau and his cronies from Kebec did to Canada.

    ." ....Given these facts, should French-speaking people concentrate their efforts on Quebec or take the whole of Canada as their base? In my opinion, they should do both; and for the purpose they could find no better instrument than federalism", Pierre Trudeau,.

    "I cannot swear it but I think we were thinking to ourselves,... we are a small group, Trudeau, Pelletier, Marchand, Lalonde, Chrétien, myself and a few people in the civil service, say 50 all told…we were bringing off a revolution. We held the key posts. We were making the civil service bilingual (French), kicking and screaming all the time". Jean-Luc Pepin, Minister of Industry, 1970.

    50 years of spin, lies...thats what we have got. They are changing the names of towns, streets, counties, bodies of water, riding names…and I’m not taking about kebec any longer. It’s now going on all over the country; it’s a mess in Ottawa where they name things after anti-English language bigots and racists all the time. They are slowly wiping out our English, Scottish, Irish, United empire loyalists history. Just like they’ve been doing in Quebec for the last 5 decades (bills 22, 178, 101...)…This is one of the main reasons we are not teaching any history from 1760 to 1982 in our schools any longer. These racist people control government, the curriculum, our money…we get a daily dose of spin, lies and propaganda.

    Wake up... They run everything in Ottawa, they funnel the money where they want, spin, lies, propaganda, revisionist BS … Proof - In that there is constant pressure to rewrite our history - to pacify the cranky Province of Quebec and the “french “outside Quebec - the reason we lost the Red Ensign in the first place - we must do what we can to protect and preserve our history. A history that is under constant attack. Very few Canadians are aware that we now have portraits in our parliament of French Kings - who had nothing to do with the building of Canada- the statue of General James Wolfe no longer overlooks the Plains of Abraham, the only statue in Quebec City is of the losing General, Montcalm. There are statues of three French generals but no statues of the victorious generals at the Valiant’s memorial in Ottawa. That’s right, no General Wolfe, no General Amherst, No Gen. Murray… This historical revisionism is going on right under the noses of the Governments we elect - and they remain silent!


    Go learn our proud, real BNA and UEL history. These were the builders of our country since 1763. Not this phony, revisionist lie, this bilingual, multicultural, 2 founding nations, linguistic duality lie, propaganda, spin that we’ve been living with since Trudeau, and kebec forced this upon the nation….we have lived with decades of lies… We’ve been part of the British Empire since 1763 and officially an English speaking country for over 200 years…just a fact.

    It’s a nightmare folks…wake up please.

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  15. There may be some truth to it but I agree that all of this is changing the history of this country. It is noticeable everywhere. Another very good reason to let the 30% malcontents go and partition this province - perhaps then we can get back on track in this country.

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    1. 30% d'imbéciles du Québec bouleverse le canada?...Qui sont les vrais imbéciles?

      Delete
    2. Toi, mon petit S.R.
      Focus tes energies pour te separer. Allez, ouste!

      Delete
    3. SVP,lisez attentivement les consignes de ce blogue cher canadien anonyme.

      Delete
  16. I'm glad to see we're getting a bit of traction with the $1.45 argument

    Over on REDDIT the story has been picked up and has already generated some very interesting comments.
    http://is.gd/ChNUKM

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    1. THANK YOU VERY much.. ScipiiRye

      Your submission has generated over 350+ visits so far......Well-done!

      I read a lengthy comment you made in that thread starting with..."The article assumes that the reader understands the concept of equalization...."

      Would you kindly consider posting it it here in our comments section as well.
      I'm sure readers would be interested in your opinion and not everyone goes over to REDDIT.

      Delete
    2. From some of the seppie comments on REDDIT, I don't think any one of them has ever, ever had to balance a check book. Bunch of bums that don't know what a hard days work is all about. To think they have the power to bankrupt us pisses me off no end. The social system in this province has to be revamped - artists, welfare bums that don't want to work, etc. I want to have a good social system also but for legitimate need cases, not for bums. As I've said before, if you want to be a bum, move to quebec. These blood suckers have to be let go before they can do more damage to the economy of quebec and Canada as a whole. Partition this damn place.

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    3. @Cutie

      Doesn't matter if Reddit posters are from Quebec/ROC/America, English or French, by and large Reddit's community is well known for being made up of 25-and-under mom's-basement-dwelling little porn-and-Cheetos-addicts.

      In effect, what I'm saying is that Reddit is basically powered by trolls who have yet to work their first real jobs or make a mortgage payment, so don't let it get to you...and please don't ever go to their in-person gatherings...you'll lose your mind!

      Delete
    4. @Résidu Evil

      Vous a-t-on déjà fait remarquer que vous aviez une forte propension à l'amalgame?

      cutie a le même problème que vous d'ailleurs.

      Delete
    5. Thank you Resident - first time I visited it so I'm glad you warned me. I guess that most of our separatists are in the 25 and under group who have never contributed piss all to society or any of the money they suck out of the system. I was working at 17 and always had a job - felt bad taking 6 weeks UI when I had my baby. Things sure have changed for this spoiled generation of idiots we seem to have raised.

      Delete
    6. Yeah, that's the thing Cutie - the "Entitlement Generation" isn't exclusive to Quebec, it's everywhere.

      Why do you think Greece has millions of its citizens rioting in the streets for free money, when there's no f**king money left to begin with?

      S.R and his ilk are clearly dependents in our society...and part of their inspiration comes from "hallmarks of freedom" like Greece, Spain and Italy which are so far in debt, they can barely put a five-year plan together.

      The one problem with S.R, and his later ego YL as well as Michel Patrice is that they've all miserably failed to deliver any sort of action plan outlining how Quebec woudl actually prosper on its own.

      Like the line from the movie goes, "Show me the money!"

      But they never do.

      Delete
  17. Gee, surprise, some of the PQs went to the same club but for different reasons. Even the big P and Mr. Lisee admit to being there. Shock!!!!!!!!!Wonder if LaPresse will publish that news? Of course, Mr. Lisee says he wasn't an elected official when he went there (don't know what difference that's supposed to make).

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  18. You would think being with the British soldiers when they discovered the concentration camps in 1945 would make someone think twice about creating their own brand of ethnocentric, racist, nationalism.
    Not for Rene Levesque!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "(...) would make someone think twice about creating their own brand of ethnocentric, racist, nationalism. Not for Rene Levesque!"

      Did you ever consider the possibility that, perhaps, his natinalism wasn't etnocentric and racist?

      Delete
    2. Michel is right. Levèsque was nationalist, but in no way a racist or a francosupremacist. He spoke excellent English, was very well travelled and educated, and his vision of an independent Québec was inclusive, that is to say included anglos and ethnics rather than today's exclusive independence.

      I don't agree with his policies, but he was not a racist. It's a shame that his successors are so unlike him in that regard.

      Delete
    3. Have you forgotten who introduced bill 101 in the first place? I have no respect for Levesque.

      Delete
    4. Laurin may have proposed the idea, but Levesque is equally responsible for its creation.

      Delete
    5. I believe Levèsque knew he couldn't beat Laurin, Parizeau and their crew. His hands were tied.

      Contrary to how I feel about separatists at large, I believe Levèsque's brand of sovereignty was rooted in noble intentions.

      Delete
    6. EDM & Resident Evil: I've mentioned this before in this blog, and I'll do so again. In Mordechai Richler's book Oh Canada! Oh Quebec!, Richler mentions an encounter he had with Lévesque at a faculty mixer at Harvard U. asking Lévesque something about Laurin and his language law. Lévesque admitted to Richler he couldn't stand Laurin, so Richler retorted that he was Lévesque's appointee (to his cabinet). Lévesque grinned at Richler, shrugged his shoulders and walked away. Lévesque, in reality, created a monster. Simple as that.

      Delete
    7. Lrevesque lost it when he referred to anglophones and allophones as "les autres". He crossed the line and became a bigot.

      Delete
  19. Lord Dorchester

    Someone should forward this post to the boys at Option Nationale. I think they based their entire campaign on this fiscal fallacy during the last election.
    The Separatist economic argument has never made sense and never will. Their appeal is an emotional one based on fear. Fear of losing their language. They should stick to that and leave their far fetched economic theories in the tree house. Didn't Richard Le Hir waste a bunch of our tax dollars doing economic studies in the 90's that essentially blew their economic argument out of the water? As far as I'm concerned, we can't have another provincial fast enough. Throw the bums out!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I agree, separatism is a laughable idea in a first-world country. There isn't one example of how Quebec is being in any way restricted democratically by remaining a part of Canada, therefore there isn't one logical reason to support such a movement.

      Delete
    2. But they don't mind restricting the rights of others - If they want to be part of Canada (excluding the 28%) then they must recognize the Canadian Constitution wherein that everyone is treated equally. Hopefully we will one day soon find a politician that is willing to spell this out to quebec and we can let those that vote to go - go. My dream!

      Delete
    3. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE CALGARYWednesday, November 28, 2012 at 6:38:00 PM EST

      Cutie 003.
      If you do not like Quebec leave.

      Delete
    4. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE CALGARY

      +1

      Delete
    5. Lord Dorchester: The Angryphone documentary is finally on YouTube in its entirety, in three parts. Click on the word Angryphone above for the hyperlink. I believe Richard Le Hir talks about it. Le Hir admitted to Parasite the results of his research were unfeasible, but Parasite demanded suppression of Le Hir's findings.

      Delete
    6. Correction: The documentary was in five parts.

      Delete
  20. SOMEONE. ANYONE.
    PLEASE GIVE ME ONE SOLID REASON WHY QUEBEC SHOULD SEPARATE.
    PLEASE BACK UP YOUR CLAIM.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Parce que nous détestons les anglos?

      Delete
    2. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE CALGARYWednesday, November 28, 2012 at 5:45:00 PM EST

      S.R....
      Merci de nous montrer que t'es un colon.
      J'aime vraiment qu'un cent dessin comme toi peut tres bien representer le Quebec, hors Quebec.
      Merci encore!!!!

      Delete
    3. Sans dessein...Pas d'insultes gratuites s'il vous plaît.

      Delete
    4. Unfortunately Anonymous, that is the separatist attitude in this province. Hateful, miserable, bums, malcontents, troublemakers, isolationists, racist, anglophobes, - hate everyone and everything that is not pur laine french. Very difficult to live next door to these miserable beings as they are not the best neighbours and wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire. Just exactly like the "skin heads" except their excuse is language, not colour or religion, so far. Give them time, their targets will change because they have to hate something and someone.

      Delete
    5. "...that is the separatist attitude in this province. Hateful, miserable, bums, malcontents, troublemakers, isolationists, racist, anglophobes "

      Vous voyez?cutie peut être aussi sympathique que vous...calgary man :)

      Delete
    6. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE CALGARYWednesday, November 28, 2012 at 6:36:00 PM EST

      Cutie 003.
      You and the other remaining 900 000 anglos should leave Quebekistan at once and move to Alberta. The vacuum that you will all leave will economically destroy that xenophobic province. At the very least, drive three hours down to Kingston, sure beats doing like me back in 2002; I drove for three days!!!
      Kingston is a Great city, no bigots and tons of history.

      All the non-quebecois, get the hell out.
      It's that simple!
      Le Quebec aux Quebecois!

      Delete
    7. S.R Wednesday, November 28, 2012 6:04:00 PM EST

      "Sans dessein...Pas d'insultes gratuites s'il vous plaît."

      I like that one...oh how I love that one.

      Delete
    8. Je représente autant le Québec que vous l'alberta mister calgary.

      Delete
    9. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE CALGARYWednesday, November 28, 2012 at 6:57:00 PM EST

      LOL!
      En etant ici 24/7 tu represente un bien petit peuple qui souffre du sous emploi.

      Vive le quebekistan!!!!!

      S.v.p. c'est monsieur Calgary. Tu vois, SR, en Alberta on est pas raciste. Mais vu que t'as , que 18 ans t'as jamais mis un pied hord quebekistan, alors pour l'ignorance, bien tu remporte le prix!!!!

      Delete
    10. "Je représente autant le Québec que vous l'alberta mister calgary."

      Uh, I'm not on welfare, I don't attend KKK cross burnings and I don't force other to live their lives according to my rules...so uh, no...you don't represent Quebec littel monsieur Bougon.

      Delete
    11. "...en Alberta on est pas raciste"

      Ho boy!Le spot à rednecks par excellence...MDR!

      Delete
    12. À part ça,comment se porte l'environnement à "call Gary" l'air est toujours respirable?

      Delete
    13. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE CALGARYWednesday, November 28, 2012 at 8:01:00 PM EST

      I WILL TRANSLATE ALL OF S.R. "COME BACKS" WHICH ARE LAME FROM NOW ON...
      "À part ça,comment se porte l'environnement à "call Gary" l'air est toujours respirable?"

      Really? The environment in Calgary is bad due to bad air quality.
      Typical young quebecois who never left his province and relied on the views and teachings of his high school socialist unions loving professeurs.

      Wow....A racist comment:

      "Ho boy!Le spot à rednecks par excellence...MDR!"

      He must have never been to Calgary, poor little quebecois mouton.

      Delete
    14. "He must have never been to Calgary..."

      Non jamais,il doit sûrement y avoir une raison ou des raisons.Les blockbusters américains et les Tim Hortons comme seules activités culturelles et gastronomiques,non merci.

      Delete
    15. L'air est pourtant très bien a Calgary.. presqu'aucune industrie lourde dans la cité. Le pétrole provient de Fort MacMurray, qui est des heures de routes au nord.

      Delete
    16. Et c'est a Calgary qu'on a élu le premier maire musulman au Canada...

      Delete
    17. "Le pétrole provient de Fort MacMurray, qui est des heures de routes au nord..."

      Ha,ok...Ça règle le problème.

      Delete
    18. En plus, le pétrole, ça n'affecte pas l'air quand c'est produit, juste quand c'est rafiné ou brûlé...

      Delete
    19. Anon: There are several reasons I now have.

      1. I walked the talk. I left Quebec as I vowed I would at age 16. I finished my cheap Quebec CEGEP and University education, and left.

      2. I have renounced my Quebec identity because Quebec society made a point of separating me from Québécois «pur laine». Not only did the separatist political party do this, the federalist one did so as well. It was the so-called federalist party that put together the most alienating language legislation of all.

      3. In light of #2 above, I was lumped with "The English", the tyrannous masters, the conquerors, etc. NO! I was a child of immigrants from Eastern Europe who came to Canada with what they could carry who had to start their lives over from ground zero. All this because my mother tongue is English.

      4. In light of #3 above, especially on my mother's side, my grandfather built businesses from nothing. He died during the Depression at a young age, and his oldest son, then age 22, took over the businesses when all the assets were pledged to the bank, yet turned around those business to help support himself, his mother, and five younger siblings. He hired local Francophones to help with his businesses and therefore made positive contributions to his community, a small town in the Townships. Supporting himself and six other people in trying times cost him his life at age 52. My paternal grandfather was also self-employed most of his time in Canada taking a job from nobody!

      For an ungrateful Quebec, one that is only on the take from the RoC, these are the reasons why I no longer support Quebec's being a part of Canada. It doesn't deserve to be part of Canada. Quebec has plenty of natural resources it doesn't even go after, so separation will force them to do so, or starve under the weight of their debt, and the portion they will take leaving Canada from which they previously benefitted.

      Satisfied?

      Delete
  21. ATTENTION ALL ANONYMOUS POSTERS
    READ POSTING RULES!

    I'm afraid I agree with S.R on this one;
    "SVP,lisez attentivement les consignes de ce blogue cher canadien anonyme."

    You CANNOT post using the 'Anonymous' screen alias

    Sometimes I let one through, but too many ANON posts is confusing, which is where we are in this thread.
    So no more for today...

    PLEASE read "HOW TO COMMENT ON THIS BLOG" at the top of the page on the green bar.

    Thank you for your cooperation.

    ReplyDelete
  22. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE CALGARYWednesday, November 28, 2012 at 5:43:00 PM EST

    No probs, Editor.
    I'm the guy with the above ANON.

    ReplyDelete
  23. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE CALGARYWednesday, November 28, 2012 at 6:47:00 PM EST

    Au cas ou S.R. n'aurait pas lu encore...
    Suivant ton commentaire de 09h00 ce matin...

    En suivant votre logique, et celle de JF Lisee, s.v.p. vous voyez tres clairement que le Quebec serait $2 000 000 000 plus riche anuellement en quittant le Canada.
    Mais qu'attendez-vous? $2 000 000 000 pour 8 000 000 de quebecois c'est pres de $125 par quebecois-es. Ma question: que faites-vous tous dans le Canada. C'est pas rentable. Etes-vous fous?

    Oh.... N'oubliez pas votre part (25%) de la dette canadienne - $150 000 000 000 - en nous quittant:) Cheers!

    P.S. S.R. tu es ici tout le temps, c'est dur le sous-emploi au Quebec, mon grand?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE CALGARYWednesday, November 28, 2012 at 7:01:00 PM EST

      Alors, tu proposes quoi pour les " non pure-laine"?

      J'aime bien le fait que tu restes evasif devant des faits concrets!
      T'aimes mieux dire des niaiseries, un vrai pure-laine!!!!

      Tu vas prendre une brosse a la Labatt 50 le 23 juin au soir pi tu demandes un quebec libre.... beau cave.
      Fais ta propre independance. Pas de couille. T'aimes mieux sucer le ROC pour ton cheque de BS

      Delete
    2. Ha j'oubliais...Pour aller "vivre" dans l'Ouest canayen,vous avez dû en arracher pas à peu près,au Québec :)

      Delete
    3. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE CALGARYWednesday, November 28, 2012 at 7:09:00 PM EST

      Non pas vraiment, mon champion.
      Les syndicaleux, les separeux pi juste $70 000 apres mon HEC, non merci.
      Une firme de Calgary m'a offert $110 000 pi pas de cotisations de syndicaleux, j'ai eu de l'avancement pi une augmentation annuelle selon la performance, deux promotions pi j'ai passe 3 ans a Abu Dhabi. Aujourd'hui j'ai fini mon MBA, paye par mon employeur ANGLO. Pi j'appelle Calgary ma ville.
      T'as jamais vu ca au Quebec. Mon Bougon:)

      Delete
    4. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE CALGARYWednesday, November 28, 2012 at 7:54:00 PM EST

      En passant, le cave je suis natif de Ste-Foy et 100% quebecois.
      C;est juste que.... quand tu sors du bien petit quebekistan, c'est la que tu vois comment minable qu'est le quebec.
      Pi a part ca je suis tanne de parler a un cave de 17 and dans son sous-sol fais que vas te faire voir mon petit carre rouge.
      Bye bye mon separeux pi bonne chance dans ton quebec independant et francais en 2100.

      Delete
    5. S.R's our local yokel.

      Don't mind him - without No Dogs or Anglophones, he's just another segment on COPS...

      "Ah didn't hit her, I swear!!! I wuz just drinkin' my Molson!"

      Delete
  24. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE CALGARYWednesday, November 28, 2012 at 7:05:00 PM EST

    S.R. wrote earlier today:

    "S.RWednesday, November 28, 2012 9:21:00 AM EST
    Vos idoles passent à la télé cutie:

    Beauchamp et Tomassi sous la loupe de la Commission:"
    --------------

    Sounds like typical "pure-laine" guys!!!!!!
    LOL!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  25. L'Arctique fond à un rythme alarmant, selon les experts

    http://www.lapresse.ca/environnement/201211/28/01-4598765-larctique-fond-a-un-rythme-alarmant-selon-les-experts.php

    Allez les albertains,continuons à brûler de l'énergie fossile datant d'un autre siècle...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE CALGARYThursday, November 29, 2012 at 6:20:00 AM EST

      Then, S.R. dummy sell your car and start walking. Also, stop eating food as it came to you via polluting trucks. Better yet, when Quebekistan is free of anglos, ban all cars, planes, boats and trains; be like North Korea.
      We all know that Alberta is known for being rich, dynamic and prosper, Quebec is known for corruption, mafia links, xenophobia and socialism...

      Delete
    2. Analyse simpliste digne d'un enfant de 8 ans ou d'une ménagère outaouaine de 50.

      Delete
    3. Something wrong with being 50 or is that just someone else you hate?

      Delete
  26. For all those encouraging the anglophone community to leave Quebec, I bring forth this analogy: If someone throws eggs at our house do we move out of our house or do we clean it up?

    ReplyDelete
  27. FROM ED BROWN
    To Les Gars, Please don't do us the favour of translating what SR wrote. We don't want to know. We have been asked not to communicate with him and we've had cooperation from almost everyone. We have also been asked to post in English if you can because it is an English blog about English problems.
    EDM, I'm with you. There is nothing here we can't handle so we do not need to encourage anyone to leave.
    Ed

    ReplyDelete
  28. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE CALGARYThursday, November 29, 2012 at 6:24:00 AM EST

    S.R.'s hero, Daniel Breton is a scammer.
    He is also a fat dirty pig.
    http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/quebec-canada/politique-quebecoise/201211/28/01-4598702-plusieurs-condamnations-pour-le-ministre-daniel-breton.php?utm_categorieinterne=trafficdrivers&utm_contenuinterne=cyberpresse_BO2_quebec_canada_178_accueil_POS3

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "He is also a fat dirty pig"

      Au moins il n'est pas ministre de la santé :)

      Delete
    2. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

      Delete
    3. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

      Delete
    4. Uh, Editor? What exactly was wrong with saying that UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE CALGARY beat me to the punch?

      Am I missing something here?

      Delete
    5. Peut-être parce que c'est présomptueux de prétendre que Daniel Breton est mon héros?

      Delete
    6. Whatever the case - really not impressed.

      Delete
  29. Leger already up to their old tricks. http://www.threehundredeight.com/
    I really can't believe PQ can pull off even a minority the second time around. Though I would like the PQ to stick around a little longer so they become even more unpopular. More then that I would like votes split with the Option Nationale and Quebec Solidaire

    ReplyDelete
  30. The slave mentality of southern blacks vs. the Quebecois:

    http://redwhitebluenews.com/?p=23327

    ReplyDelete
  31. @Résidu maléfique

    Wikileaks & The Canadian Inferiority Complex: The CanLit Solution

    http://www.chezchiara.com/2010/12/wikileaks-canadian-inferiority-complex.html

    "Most often a Canadian will laugh happily at our inferiority complex, even entertain speculation at our national identity, or lack there of. However, call us Americans, and well, duck! As another pundit opined, "Our inferiority complex is part of our superiority complex". True, part of our national identity consists of claiming not only distinction from, but superiority to, Americans."

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Found on Twitter and it couldn't be more true:

      "I support Daniel Breton's decision to stay in #assnat. There is no one better than an unemployed fraudster to represent the PQ voting base."

      My condolences to S.R

      Delete
  32. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE CALGARYThursday, November 29, 2012 at 4:43:00 PM EST

      "Excluding residents of Cuba, Iran, North Korea, the province of Quebec, Sudan, Syria, and any other jurisdiction where this contest is prohibited."

      Quebekistan, part of the Axis of Weasels! Yes!!!!
      S.R. will be proud to be up there with dictators!!!!
      AWESOME!!!!!!
      I LOOOOOVE IT!

      Delete
    2. Original source:
      http://www.sportdiver.com/enter-to-win-bare-adventure-contest-official-rules

      A harbinger of the future?

      Delete
  33. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE CALGARYThursday, November 29, 2012 at 4:40:00 PM EST

    QUEBEC IS #1!!!!!!

    “Quebecers pay the highest total taxes — federal, provincial and local — than any other Canadians or any Americans.”
    http://www.fraserinstitute.org/uploadedFiles/fraser-ca/Content/research-news/research/publications/economic-freedom-of-north-america-2012.pdf

    QUEBEC IS #1!!!!!!

    Quebecers have the highest per capita gross debt of any province.” True. This month’s Quebec budget predicts that it will rise from $193 billion this year to $208 billion in 2018.


    ReplyDelete
  34. UN GARS BIEN SYMPATHIQUE DE CALGARYThursday, November 29, 2012 at 4:46:00 PM EST

    Quebec is dying:

    "“its lack of economic freedom translates into a lower standard of living and fewer opportunities for Quebecers.”

    Read more: http://www.montrealgazette.com/business/Quebec+economic+freedom+fettered+social+programs+taxes+Fraser+report/7623883/story.html#ixzz2DeOVQ9HM

    Why would anyone live there?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Nous préférons mourir en français que vivre en anglais.

      Delete
    2. oh no worries, you will!!! (

      (oppps Sorry ED, the devil made me do it !! lol)

      Delete
    3. @Calgary Guy,

      Thanks for speaking the truth! It's a tough pill to swallow...the Truth!! There is Life after Quebec, isn't there? Ah but too many will never know, et c'est dommage!

      Delete
  35. FROM ED BROWN
    The Federal government voted down a bill to use generic drugs openly in Canada. A loss to Canadians and other countries. UNICEF is very disappointed saying the rugs could save lives around the world.
    Even two of our biggest Pharmaceutical Manufacturers were on board with it. Seven Conservative members voted for it and can't understand why it happened. They said they have been given no reason for it. PM Harper doesn't trust his won members. This could have significantly reduced the HIV in the African countries. We'd all like to know why but the ice man is not talking. Ed

    ReplyDelete
  36. FROM ED BROWN
    The subject of today's blog is fascinating. One has to wonder how can Francophones support the PQ in the light of this. The answer of course is simple, they don't know the truth. Ergo, they need to be informed. perhaps some of you posters who communicate so clearly in French could use your valuable time to get the word out.
    In today's post there was over two hundred lines and spaces wasted communicating with SR. Our time and effort would be much better spent in getting the word out to TV Press and Radio shows.
    Perhaps those who speak perfect French could call French radio and tell them the truth.
    Refer to the information that Editor has supplied
    Suggest they google an article entitled Financially, Quebec depends more and more on Ottawa, written by Editor in Chief of the French language magazine "Les Affaires, Jean-Paul Gagné
    let them see the truth for themselves. Ed

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Forget the French media, they are deaf, dumb & blind AND it's intentional. I'd put it on youtube! Let it go viral!

      Delete
  37. FROM ED BROWN
    Excellent idea AnecTOTE. maybe someone here would know how to do this. We have to take advantae of every opportunity. If we're just going to talk about it amongst ourselves we're wasting time. Ed

    ReplyDelete
  38. was reading about camp 22 in n. korea, [the north and south after separation], and wondering if the minister of montreal decided to close the bridges,and let only the francophones and the separatists and probably the communists out.wouldn t the minister be the general in charge of camp anglo. they could have a special tax which is basically what 'la sdc' of main arteries , and all the mayors of boroughs could be second in command to the general. but an island is so easy to close off there are very few exits.perhaps why the exile of the francophones to the burbs.was just wondering!cause separation will not come through democratic means and that i am sure.

    ReplyDelete
  39. I'd prefer Quebec to stay within Canada, but not at any price. If they want to go, then "Bonne Chance." They'll also be responsible for their share of foreign debt, and they'll no longer receive transfer payments from the M.O.C. (Most Of Canada, as opposed to the ROC, or Republic Of Taiwan).

    ReplyDelete
  40. So there are many here who firmly believe their anglo leaders stupid enough to lose money over a territory and a population that are under their control.

    ReplyDelete